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Credo Mutwa Reptilians


Transcript of Feb. 2, 1999 talk with Roger Elvick
Note: This transcript has been edited for readability (grammer, punctuation and spelling only)
Brackets [ ]  indicate suggested revisions where the transcribed text is confusing or apparently

Jean: I have a couple of questions. Let me see if I understand the whole thing: when the[y] register
the birth certificate, that becomes a lien, becomes the UCC-1 form?
Roger: Well, I would suppose the reason for that is, to start to bind the commercial value of
Jean: Aren't we the "accomodation party" under 3-415. In other words, they are borrowing on our
Roger:  Well, we can['t] just make generalized assumptions: there are alot of people who are going
to have to qualify their own positions. So, we want to be careful about this, because this is the
difference between general appearance and special appearance. We're talking about
"appearing" somewhere for some specific reason. We are talking in generalities, and
generalities are not specific. The only way is : When you have an actual action going, and
somebody is now prosecuting their own action. You see, they can't do this on total
instructions from others. They can't prosecute their own case.
Jean: That's what they are doing, isn't it?
Roger: Well, yeah, but i'm talking here about somebody who might think that he is a victim. Even
somebody who is a victim is going eventually to have to take accountability for his own
actions. You can't just rely on a generalized idea. Eventually you are going to have to take a
position call "applying your principles". In commerce, there are only two things, principle and
interest. When you monetize the debt, the interest accrues to the principle.
Jean: What is the principle?
Roger: You might be the principle party who is applying principle or principles. You see, it is all a
play on words here, in some respects. You might say we have some principles that we live by.
Well, when you start to break those principles down into dollars and cents, or exchange items,
then it's more then talk, because now you have to identify the agreement.
Jean: I see.
Roger: So, that's why i'm saying that the "accomodation person" is going to take some qualifying.
In an actual action, some of these questions here we won't be able to get an answer for unless
you have a real action going because what you wind up doing is speculating.
Jean: We have a question about when you go into an automobile dealership. If you ask the dealer,
"Will you sell me that car?" Then if he says, "yes", then you sign a contract?
Roger: Well, sure. But you've got to remember the exact point when "title" passes for the title or
claim on that peice of property.  See, I had this taken up with some attorneys years and years
ago, long before we ever got into these kinds of disputes. Because I was in the middle of an
action where there was a piece of real estate involved, and we had to determine the exact
point when title passed, because the financial transaction was occuring on the 22nd of
December, and we had to know the exact point when the title transferred, because of the
Dave: When is it?
Roger: [What] the law firm came up with for me was: He has a piece of property for sale, for
instance, and has offered it for sale, and you accept the offer -- at that point, when you accept
the offer, is the exact instant that title passes. You have the "agreement".
Dave: Not when you get the manufacturer's certificate of origin?
Roger: No, it is the "meeting of the minds." Because any manufacturers, and all that kind of stuff --
the "mind" had to act on those things before those things ever came into existence.
Jean: OK Explain to him why title passes when you sign the agreement
Dave: (in background) meeting of the minds?
Roger: Why title passes when you sign the agreement? Like what? You see, title has already
Jean: Are you saying then, that you have already paid for the vehicle?
Dave: He is saying title passed when you had the "meeting of the minds".
Roger: Right, right! So you see, the rest of this here is just.....
Jean: You mean the money doesn't make any difference?
Roger: No, because money -- all money is is the evidence of the exchange of energy after the fact.
That's all money is; it's a form.
Dave: It's just a consummation of the intention.
Roger: Yeah. Because money isn't the actual "energy". See, what we are talking about, it is energy.
See, we're getting into another dimension that -- I guess the only way I could describe that is,
is if we're talking about "circuit courts". Well, I have a circuit court here, and if I want to
coerce you into something, I could take these wires here, and I could plug those into my
circuit here, into 110 volts-- O.K., but you see, that has the same sort of connotation there
because the circuits -- that's why these Circuit Courts are called "circuit courts". Because
what they are doing is -- those circuit courts are geared to track the circuitry of the human
body or the human mind.
Jean: O.K.
Roger: Because there are actual charges that have to occur in the mind, in order to make an
intelligent decision.
Jean: O.K.
Roger: See, that's what's behind the courts here. When you're under direct examination in court,
or when your under an "indirect exam", which means the "cross exam" -- well, the
direct exam is examining your "conscious mind" and the cross examination examines the
Jean: O.K.
Roger: That's why people have to stay in "good standing" with their own consciences, because,
see, what they are trying to get you to do is to alter the agreement that your "conscious" mind
and your "subconscious" mind have, and that's when your immune system breaks down.
You see? It's based on evidence of this kind of circuitry. That's [the] point i'm trying to make.
And the circuitry is having to put the harness on the weak energy of nature and manking.
Jean: What is the decision? Are you just talking generally?
Roger: I was just talking generally now, so you see, when there's a generalized question.
Jean: You are talking about metaphysical stuff?
Roger: Yeah, but, you see it boils down to, you've fallen under examination in court, you see.
Jean: They break down the decision between your conscious and your subconscious?
Roger: Right! See, that's the reason that people who go after "contest" with these characters here --
you need to stay in "good faith" here with your own conscience. Your subconscious mind is
totally innocent of everything, OK? It believes everything your conscious mind tells it. Well
that gets to be a tremendous responsibility. If you had someone who is very, very innocent,
and would act on everything you told it, you see, you would have a tremendous respnsibility
when your being asked some of these technical questions. Because you've got to be totally
honest, to be able to keep your immune system together. And that's what it is all about.
That's why some of these judges and attorneys get all lathered up if we take them over into
the area to where thess consequences become real in their case. Because if we start crowding
them for this kind of testimony, in their affairs, that's when they have to back away from us.
Jean: What do you mean "testimony"?
Roger: If we press them to the point to where they are going to have to compromise their
conscience, when we bring the fact of the matter to them. It is just like here when I told you
about the "three magic questions". We go into court, and I asked them, "Do you have a claim
against me?" or I ask him what his name is, "Do you have a claim against me?"  -- usually, you
can get that far -- and they will say, "This is my name" and "no I don't have a claim". And, of
course, you go on from there: "Do you know of anyone else who does?" and they say, "Yeah,
Farm Credit Services has got a claim". Well Farm Credit Services isn't a real person; it is a
fiction. Now, some of these judges get cute, and they say, "My name is judge so and so."
Well, that's a fiction. That isn't a real party. That isn't a name that can enter the "commercial
register," because "Judge So and So" is a public name.
Jean: So you are saying that the court is a "commercial register" ?
Roger: Well the court that we're taking them into is what the Magna Charta refers to as an
"ecclesiastical court of conscience."
Jean: A court is  -- "place where a contract or agreement is made."
Roger: Well that's what the real court is that we are using, to bring these people to heel, because
these people are all "employees". The only way you can make this work, is if you are coming
as an "employer".
Jean: That's why you put your social security number on the front of a ticket.
Roger: Yeah, but we identify it as an "employer" number, because if I don't do that, then they are
going to assume it is an "Employee I.D. Number", O.K.?
Jean: Because you are using it wherever you work.
Roger: Yeah. yeah, and i'm working as an employer, you see, because I am the holder of the
preferred stock of the United States government corporation, the United States corporation.
Jean: Which is what? It is the Federal Reserve note, isn't it?
Roger: Well, they issue Federal Reserve notes, and those are promises to pay, but they are
corporate promises to pay. (There is no such thing as "personal income".)
Jean: What is the "Preferred Stock" that you are holding?
Roger: I am holding the debit and the credit side both.
Jean: Of what, though?
Roger: Of the United States corporation.
Jean: O.K., what represents that "preferred stock"?
Roger: Your birth certificate.
Jean: So, the birth certificate is the preferred stock then.
Roger: Yeah, Yeah. You see, "common stock" comes from "preferred stock", because there is an
action that occurs from tha preferred stock to create common stock. Common stock means
that you are holding "in common" -- with what? With some supervisor that considers you to
be incompetent, so they are the managers of the stock, and you are collateral on it.
Dave: You are the collateral on the preferred stock?
Jean: You're actually the surety on it then, aren't you?
Roger: Yeah, or your the benficiary. And, you see, beneficiaries then collect on "debt benefits", and
the reason they called them "debt benefits" is because it's an "execution of law" that has to
occur, o.k.? So that means there is an executive officer that is in "charge" of that part of the
common stock. And, so you see, you've lost your identity. Your identity is swallowed up in
the paperwork, and the....
Jean: What is the common stock? Is that all the commercial instruments that come from the
preferred stock?
Roger: Yeah, right. It's only from one side of the account, as a credit or a debit, just which side
they come from.
Jean: Let's take a "ticket". That would represent the "common stock" then, wouldn't it?
Roger: Yeah. And what he's doing here is he wants you to agree, or agree to be the collateral on it,
or give some value to the ticket.
Jean: By paying the money.
Roger: Yeah, but you see, when you pay money, which is the "public exchange", you cannot reduce
a negative with another negative. I mean, that's just the nature of numbers. You cannot take
"public debt" here and .....
Jean: You can't discharge a debt with a debt?
Roger: No. If, for instance you're faced with a fine that's a serious criminal charge, and you pay
them with "public money", that's a bribe.
Jean: Your bribing them to drop the ticket then.
Roger: That's right, that's right, and our whole society is all drunk with using the "public money",
you see, and they don't know what they do.
Jean: So when you ask him to deliver the order to you -- after they've said they don't know anyone
else who has a claim against you, and you request that the court deliver the order to you --
what you are asking them to do is give you the "common stock" then, aren't you?
Roger: Yeah. We don't say "deliver", we say "release".
Jean: Release?
Roger: Release the stock or release the "order of the court" to me immediately.
Jean: What does that "order" represent?  Does that represent the claim that they are trying to bring
against you?
Roger: It (the "order") represents the One World Order, for one thing. It's a "money order" or it
could be a "work order".
Jean: With a money order you have to have a "payee" and a "payor".
Roger: Right.
Jean: OK. Who's the payee? The STATE OF DELAWARE?
Roger: Who is the payee? It is whoever has stated the "claim".
Jean: OK, that's the State of Delaware.
Roger: OK then. When you accept the account for value, they have [it] withdrawn from your
account. Now they have a "tax obligation" on their hands.
Jean: Say that again, what you just said. When they accept the property for value....
Roger: When you accept the property for value, they are the payee, because they are in possession.
We're saying, "I accept that claim", because they are holding a "lien" on the "claim", and they
have it in their possession, so they are the payee in fact. And the payee in fact has got to
answer to the Internal Revenue for the funds.
Jean: OK, so when you accept it for value, the [that] means you accept the claim.
Roger: Yeah. I accept the claim, and I am the taxpayer in fact, because i'll allow them [to] pass
through "my account" to effect payment.
Jean: So, when you ask them to release it to you, what are you in fact doing?
Roger: Well, they have to release to you the order of the court. They have to release "the claim"
to me -- the money, the account.
Jean: Because you have to pay it then?
Roger: Well, it's already prepaid. See, because I am the principle. They got the money from me in
the first place.
Jean: How did they do that?
Roger: Well, because of my birth certificate.
Jean: So they borrowed on your credit, then?
Roger: Damn right.
Jean: You became the creditor.
Roger: Yeah.
Jean: So you already paid the claim, and you are asking them to release the claim that you have
already paid.
Roger: Yeah, and you see, if they don't do it, then we can go and request that the district director
file a "Notice of Federal Tax Lien" and lien up all the "creditors" [debtors].
Dave: It is like when you make the final payment on a mortgage, and you ask "Now I want the
mortgage paper given back to me so I can have a mortgage burning party."
Roger: Right. Let me make it even more simple. Let's say you borrow money, or you've got a
mortgage to buy a car or buy some property, and you signed some mortgage papers for the
purpose of aquiring title to this property. That's the purpose of it. So, in the note, you've
promised to repay the loan.
Jean: That agreement is actually the title, isn't it?
Roger: Sure.
Jean: What you are bidding for is the title, and not for the payment of the property.
Roger: Right. The purpose is to aquire your "legal title". And that's what you're going to do. The
minute you spend the money, you have obtained "legal title", OK?
Jean: And, you have already paid for it.
Roger: But, when you spend the money, you have already "repaid" the load at that instant too.
Why? Because those people are part of the seller, because they are licensed through the
industrial society that has the "promise to pay". So when we paid it to one of their agents, we
have repaid the loan right at that instant.
Jean: When have you repaid the loan?
Roger: When you spend the "loan funds". At that instant. See, that's why the "Truth in Lending Act"
is out there for retail agreements.
Jean: I thought you said you had already paid for the vehicle.
Roger: Yeah. Well, which point of time do you want to take it from? What we are doing here is --
We are allowing them to go through our account so that they can obtain payment or they can
obtain something. They are the ones that have to pay it back. They're the "tax fugitives", not us.
Jean: OK, I'm talking about the vehicle. You are going in there to purchase a vehicle. ("yup")
And you draw up an "agreement." ("Yup") You sign the "agreement". ("Yup") You just
obtained "title".
Roger: Yup. Now, you see, you are talking about two different things now. We were talking about
a "loan" here before. Now, we are not talking about a "loan".
Jean: We are talking about purchasing the vehicle. As soon as you sign the "agreement", you obtain
Roger: Even before that: When you pick out what you want; when you ask him, "Can you sell this
car to me?", when he says, "Yes", I can -- at that point, when you say, "I'll take it", that's when
the "title" passes.
Jean: And you haven't even paid for it yet.
Roger: From that point on, it is your item.
Jean: How can you get title when you haven't paid for it?
Roger: You have paid for it, because it is prepaid.
Jean: By who?
Roger: By you.
Jean: When?
Roger: Because when the United States sold the debt to the corporation that built the car, it was
your birth certificate that financed it. That (birth certificate) was the collateral under which the
debt was sold to the (govermant) corporation. The corporation is now the.....
Jean: The Federal Reserve, you meanor the United States (government) corporation?
Roger: Well, yeah. They sell "industrial revenue bonds" which are "Treasury issues" of the United
States. O.K.?
Jean: And, the bonds represent the "debt" that you paid for?
Roger: Yeah. We financed the corporations to go ahead. We capitalized them to go ahead and pay
the workers to build the vehicle. Those workers have already been paid, and they've gone
home and spent the money.
Jean: Yeah. So you see, it is a prepaid item. There are no liens on it. Those guys are mechanics,
and they have been satisfied.
Dave: So, if I walk into a car dealership, and I asked the salesman, "Can you sell this car to me?"
and he says, "Yes"......
Roger: He is representing that he has "clear title" to do it.
Dave: At that point in time it is my car.
Roger: Yep.
Dave: And, we go in and sign the papers. ("Yep") and I agree to buy the car. ("Yep"). And, then I
say, "May I have the manufacturer's certificate or statement of origin and the ignition keys?"
Roger: No. No. You don't. You don't even get into any of that.
Dave: Why not? Where is your evidence of ownership, the signed agreement?
Roger: Your going to let this thing go to the State. If you get into that certificare of origin, your
going to lock yourself into one side of the account, and you can't get the evidence in out of the
other side. You'll either be locked into "legal title" or you'll be locked into "equitable title", but
you're not going to be holding the "preferred stock". You're only going to be on one side of the
Dave: O.K., what do I ask him for, instead of those?
Roger: When you write up the papers, he's going to try to qualify you and say, "I want a down
payment of this much", and you say, "well, sure. Write it however you've got to write it up."
He's going to write up installments, because sometimes you're dealing with an agency that's
financing their own paper.
Dave: Let's say i'm going to pay cash.
Roger: But, you want to be careful with the word "cash", because, what does that really mean?
All "commercial instruments" are considered to be a "cash item".
Dave: So, if I give them a personal IOU note, that's a "commercial instrument", and that's "cash"?
Roger: Sure it is, but your talking about a future event. See, what we're going to do, is bring that
future event down to the present here and now.
Jean: By doing what?
Roger: If he asks you, trying to qualify you by asking about GMAC and "What are the payment
schedules?" -- well, however they want to make their paper up, you don't care. You just tell
them that, before he gets his down payment -- you have to be careful to set a date for the
down payment until after you have the firm offer -- you say, "I am going to have to have a "firm
offer" from you before I give over any down payment to be sure that you people can pass the
Jean: What is a "firm offer"?
Roger: A "firm offer" means that when you fill out all the terms and conditions of the escrow
agreement, the most important term and condition you want stated in the agreement is that you
have the right to prepay the contract in full at any time.
Jean: Is that a "firm offer"?
Roger: No, i'm getting to that. You have got to have those terms and conditions written into the
escrow, and if he doesn't write it in, you write them in yourself.
Dave: "Prepay at any time."
Roger: Yeah. That you can pay it up at any time.
Dave: Without penalty?
Roger: Whether there's a penalty or not, let them express what the penalty is in there. We don't
care how much it is. He is the one who has to answer to the IRS for the money their getting.
We don't care.
Dave: When you say we are drawing up the "terms of escrow", that is what's known as the
"purchase agreement"?
Roger: Yes. It is the P.O. In this case P.O. means "Purchase Order", and that's a "court order",
that is a "money order".
Dave: And there is a rate for us to prepay at any time.
Jean: What is a "money order"?
Roger: It is a "money order" or "order" to hand over the property. It's an "order to pay".
Jean: So the "escrow contract" is a "money order".
Roger: Yes. See, the Bible refers to this One World Order as the "Order of the Melchizedek", or
"after the Order of Melchizedek". All these things occur after the "Order of Melchizedek",
because, after that Order goes in, then there is money. But you see, until there's money,
there's nothing that can be done.
Jean: OK
Roger: So, now you are making the money available, and all those things happen after the "Order
of Melchizedek"
Jean: That's why you have to put "option to prepay contract in full," because the Melchizedek
doesn't occur until payment is made. (Yeah) In other words, what you are doing is bringing the
future event, when they return the gold and silver, down to the present time, by putting that in
there. (Yep, yep) OK, I understand now.
Dave: So, we own the car at the time all these.....agreement....
Roger: You own it right now, because the minute he said he could give you the title, it's your's,
(meeting of the minds) unless somebody else comes in here and makes a greater claim.
Jean: OK. Do you have to write that in there, that your....
Roger: No, no. It is just something you need to understand, so your language isn't going to trip
you up when you are closing.
Jean: Supposing you put the "prepay contract in full at any time" clause in the escrow contract.
Roger: Yeah. You just want to reserve the right to pay up the contract in full at any time. I would
be careful with the words "prepay"..... "The right to pay off the entire indebtedness at any time".
The reason is , they're stacking up a future event as opposed to a later event, in that you are
going to make installments. So, he is trying to qualify you for his credit. The thing is, you can
agree. "Yeah, OK, we'll do that." But, after you get everything signed....don't tell him anything
in advance! Make sure that they get the contract settled, and he'll be now looking for down
payment. You tell him, "I'll bring it up to you tomorrow" (or whenever). But you see, what he
doesn't realize here, is that you're going to pay the whole thing off at one time when you make
the down payment. It all goes at one sweep.
Dave: You're going to pay it off in what?  How?
Roger: Yeah.
Dave: How, or by doing what, are you going to pay it off with...the debt.
Roger: When you reach that point, then he's going to want the "down payment", and you tell him
that you have to have a "firm offer" from him to enable you to raise the money for a "down
Jean: OK. What is a "firm offer"?
Roger: The "firm offer" is going to be that contract, signed by the "corporate officers" that are
"binding" on the corporation (Car Dealership Inc.) that they have in fact guaranteed here that
they "place title with you". That's actually here. They have to surrender the contract. He's going
to have to give you the original contract, right there. And, if he doesn't do it, you go to the
State's Attorney and tell him that, "This guy here is an outright fraud".
Dave: So, when we say, "I have to have a firm offer," what we are asking for -- and what the
definition of "firm offer" is -- is the statement in the contract/agreement that they have the title.
Roger: The law firm here that represents that car dealer corporation.....
Dave: Wait a minute, we're talking about the car dealership?
Roger: Yeah. That's what "law firm" means: The law firm that represents that corporation, or
"banking firm" or "investment firm". But you see, that's what "firm" is.
Jean: You mean the law firm that is backing the dealer?
Roger: Well sure. They had to "incorporate" the organization. They've got to have an attorney
that's accountable for the guarantee, so that's where (garbled) the corporations.
Jean: Do you have to have that written into the contract, that they are going to "pass title"?
Roger: You could write it in there if you want. Well, no, not really.
Jean: So you're saying that a "firm offer" is when you put the "down payment" down on the car,
they have to give you the contract?
Roger: No! No, I'm not. I'm saying they have to give you the "firm offer", so that you can accept it
in fact. That means that he has to finish up the paperwork and give it (the paperwork) to you
and give you the keys to the car. He has to demonstrate that there are no liens on it. He has to
pay off everything. , and if everything is not paid off, including the commission paid to the
salesman, then it's time for you to go to the State's Attorney and tell him, "This guy is a phony.
I want him prosecuted. And I want you, Mr. State's Attorney, to write your check to this guy
for 'this much' money and then hand over the keys to me, because you are the one here who is
in possession of the warrenty. You have to guarantee that this guy here is going to do what he's
expected to do under the rules of commerce.
Dave: So, the definition of "firm offer" is the contract to confirm by
Roger: To confirm by the "law firm" that is responsible, that is the collateral endorsement for that
company or corporation.  -- which is their attorneys or their accountants or some corporate
officer who is in power to do that.
Dave: So, it's confirmed by -- the law firm is the collateral...what?
Roger: The "collateral endorsement". The law firm that is empowered to incorporate that business.
Dave: I was not aware that law firms....
Jean: They are the guarantee of the surety.
Roger: They have to have a "registered agent" in the State, and , if they don't have one to do
business in the State, then the Secretary of State is that "registered agent".
Jean: You mean that law firm has to...
Roger: That corporation that is selling you a car better have one of those "collateral endorsements"
somewhere, that's registered.
Dave: So, it is the "resident agent" for the car dealership, not the "law firm" that drew up the dealer
corporation's papers to exist.
Roger: But that corporation can't exist without the "law firm", because there isn't any of these
corporations in this country that are incorporated.
Jean: OK. What is the "law firm" guaranteeing?
Roger: They are guaranteeing the paper.
Jean: What are they guaranteeing in the paper?
Roger: They are guaranteeing the value.
Jean: OK. They are guaranteeing that title is being passed?
Roger: Yeah. They are guaranteeing the 'value of the exchange'.
Jean: What is the "value of the exchange"?
Roger: Whatever the value of the contract is. It has got to be equal.
Jean: OK. Let's say it's thirty-thousand dollars.
Roger: OK. Then it's thirty grand.
Jean: What are they guaranteeing in regards to that thirty grand?
Roger: They are guaranteeing "title".
Jean: That you get title?
Roger: They are guaranteeing "possession". It would be title, but "title" and "possession" aren't
always the same thing.
Jean: OK. They are guaranteeing "possession" of what?
Roger: Of the item that you have purchased.
Jean: They are guaranteeing that they have possession or that you have possession?
Roger: They are guaranteeing that you have "possession".
Dave: That the possession that they used to have is now in your possession.
Roger: Yeah. See, they actually can't zero out the debt here unless they actually make a deal and
pass through your account. You see, that's why we have the deficit that keeps climbing in this
Jean: In other words -- what they are doing is --  they are not crediting.
Roger : They can't, because, what's going to happen now, they have to have something that can go
in as an electronic transfer.
Jean: In other words, they're not debiting your account that you already paid for the vehicle.
Roger: No, they can't! They are going to credit something, but as soon as it goes into your account
and now they have to file in the UCC - they are set up to do electronic transfers[?]
Jean: Yeah.
Roger: As soon as an elecronic transfer comes in like that, it is going to zero out the account, and
there is no debt. You see, that's what an "acceptance" does. When you take on an "acceptance"
here, you are accepting the "body of Christ", because you are accepting the truth of the matter.
That's why they have the "Truth-in-Lending" under Regulation "Z". "Truth in Lending" is for
retail, not wholesale, but you see, as soon as you agree that this is a retail matter, now the
leaven leavens the wholesale or the whole bag. So you see, it is all now false under the "Truth-
in Lending" as a retail matter, and that's when the "call"...
Jean: They have to disclose everything, don't they?
Roger: Yeah. That's when the "call" goes to the floor of the World Trade Center, to the bailee
who's holding the commodity contract who has got to bring forth the habeas corpus. You see?
Because he is the one who is administering the "fiscal year", but you and I are in commerce,
and we are calling for the calendar year now, the calendar call for the deputy in the circuit court,
the docket, the deficiency, and to provide us with the "addressment".
Jean: What would be the body that the bailee has to produce?
Roger: The vehicle.
Jean: Oh, I see! What you are doing in effect is, your demanding that they produce the "body" or
the "vehicle", and give it to you, that you have already paid for.
Roger: Yeah. Whatever is in the "warehouse receipt".
Jean: And warehouse receipts are documents of title.
Roger: You bet! That could be for CDs in banks, or it could be for bodies in prison.
Jean: In other words, they have already debited the "preferred stock" from your "birth certificate"
because they are borrowing all this money on your credit, so all the money that they are using is
your money.
Roger: That's right, that;s right! It's prepaid.
Jean: And, you have paid for everything, and all you have to do is get them to guarantee that they
are transferring it to you.
Roger: We have to acknowledge that it has passed into our possession, and that acknowledgement
then zeroes out the claim, so that the corporation has to close their books. That's the "closing
of escrow".
Jean: And they are never doing that, are they?
Roger: No, they're not, and alot of times when we get into it with these people, they say "We
closed your account. We are not going to have anything to do with you anymore."  Well, that's
good. Then they've got to hand over the property, because, if they "closed".....
Jean: They have balanced the account.
Roger: Then they had better provide "possession of the property" or they're committing a fraud, and
i'm going to report them to the tax department.
Jean: That's a "breach of contract", isn't it?
Roger: Sure. Yeah.
Jean: That's a "beach of trust", isn't it?
Roger: Then the United Stets attorney is going to have to prosecute the breach, because that's the
only federal jurisdiction that there is, is over "breaches". And you see, you and I can't "breach"
Jean: Because we are the beneficiaries, aren't we?
Roger: Right. Well, that's a "beneficiary" from an execution of law -- somebody has to die -- but,
with what I am doing here, we are keeping the contract alive, so there is no beneficiary --
because there is not going to be any debt.
Jean: Don't you actually become the trustee or fiduciary?
Roger: Not really. I'm the owner. I don't have to be the "trustee". I am going to bind my employees,
and, if they don't do it, Im going to have the U.S. attorney prosecute them for "breach".
Dave: Ealier, you said that the lawyers "held in bar"...something got "held in bar"
Roger: Well, they are holding the guarantee for all the corporations that they've never incorporated,
any of them, because the only true "incorporation" that there is --is the "incorporation of the
body of Christ", which is the "acceptance" and the zeroing out of the debt. OK? And that's
never been done. They're still carrying all this debt here.
Dave: So, none of these things that think they are corporations are actual corporations?
Roger: No, because the attorneys are not paying the taxes, and they are holding all the liabilities
and all the promises to pay "in bar".
Jean: Why aren't they paying the taxes?
Roger: Because of the "passover". Because what they are doing here is passing over the promise to
pay. The bill in the past is being exchanged for the future "bond", and you see, there is an equal
exchange there. It's when they've got as finished product.....
Jean: The bill in the past would be their promise to pay the debt.
Roger: Right, that's the bill. That's the cost of manufacture.
Jean: OK. So, they are passing over the promise to pay, so they are breaching the trust, aren't they?
Roger: Right. They are "passing over" the present and going into the future here with the bill.
Jean: In other words, all this money they are getting you to pay is going into the "futures", isn't it?
Roger: Right! It is going into the futures market, and they are speculating on it.
Jean: And, they are borrowing on it, aren't they? So they are using that to create another debt
contract for future debt.
Roger: Yeah. But you see, the way they are doing it is they are sticking it into a "hedge contract"
in Wall Street. Those "hedges" in there, they are alleging they are putting up their "reserves" for
the claims, but they never ever fund them. All it is is just a piece of paper, but you see, when
somebody like you or I comes along, and says, "OK, buddy, put up or shut up" (that's when
you're reading the Wall Street Journal, and it says, "call and puts") well, we are calling the bailee
to the floor to put up the deficiency on the court docket here and instructing the duputy of the
circuit court to call the calendar.
Jean: That's what you are actually doing when you ask the court to deliver (release) you the order,
isn't it?
Roger: That's right. Yup, yup.
Jean: Boy! Now I understand. What you are asking them to do is zero the account and cancel the
Roger: Right. And, hand over the property.
Jean: What would be the property?
Roger: Well, whatever is in contest: The vehicle here that we've been talking about.
Jean: Let's say in a traffic ticket. What would that be?
Roger: It would be your body or/and the money here that the ticket....
Jean: So, they would have to deliver you your birth certificate, wouldn't they?
Roger: Yeah. Or their going to have to deliver you the amount of the fine. Or I can take the ticket
and take it down to the bank and drop it in their night depository and request the banker to
exchange it for a "certificate of deposit" for that amount of money. Guess what?
Jean: Have you ever done that?
Roger: Oh, yes, we have done some of these. But, now you see, you are in possession of the
evidence. You can go to court and tell the judge, "I've got a banker I can summon into court,
and he'll tell you that this is a "worthless instrument". So, it is no good, and that evidence will
stick, because it is "idirect evidence". Because the banker -- he can't avoid the summons now,
because he is the "third party", and it is not a "direct exam". It is an "indirect exam".
[Short break -- flipped tape.]
Jean: You can go directly to "collection", can't you?
[End of Fragment]

Continuation -

Jean: If they refuse what? Honor your "binder"?  "Stamp" and "number"
Roger: If they refuse to Honor my request to give me a copy of the SR-22 CERTIFICATE with
the "Time Stamp" and "Number".
Jean: Oh, you mean - the Insurance Company?
Roger: Yeah. Well, their agent of the Agency and the Company. See, the Agency and the Company
are two different things.
Jean: O.K.
Roger: So, then when I write in and ask for a copy next time, I'll have to pay the same fee, as I did
for filing the information in the first place. Well, then the second time, I'll just request a copy,
and I'll have the "return copy" mailed from the Secretary of State to the Insurance agency...
Jean: O.K.
Roger: ....and that's the Binder. That's the NOTICE they are bound. And, that's my "Binder".
Jean: So, you use the UCC-11 (UCC-3) form from the Secretary of State's office, right?
Roger: Well, they can tell you where to get it. If you can't get em, there's a catalog company that
furnishes them for all over the United States, out of Malcolm, Minnesota.
Jean: Can you give me their number?  In other words, you find out they are not "doing business as",
and they are not licensed to do business.
Roger: Well, they are not "Registered" to do business. This has nothing to do with License, it has to
do with "Registration".
Jean: So if they are not "Registered", what does that mean?
Roger: Well, it means that they are not "Registered" in the "Commercial Register" in the community.
That means the "Chambers". You know what the "Court Chambers" are?  They always call
them the "Judge's Chambers". Really what that is is the "Chamber of Commerce". You see,
it is the "Commercial Chamber".
Roger: O.K., I've got it. This is called "Registre' Incorporated, Inc. 514, Pierce St. P.O. Box 218,
Anoke, Minnesota M-1 55303. Phone (612) 421-1713. Fax - (612) 421-0865.
Jean: When you find out they are not "Registered" to do business, what is the significance of that?
Roger: Well, the - If they're not Registered to do business, if they keep making a claim, they've got
a Tax obligation.
Jean: That's "Income" then, isn't it?
Roger: Yeah. They haven't filed a "Tax Return". They haven't returned the money here, that they're
claiming that -- see, they're the ones here that have made the "claim", and you see, anything
they say, can and will, be used against them.  (Jean: O.K.)   See, this is a criminal jurisdiction,
see. That's why.
Jean: You mean the Insurance thing is....
Roger: Yeah. Because when your person is involved, you see, it's Criminal.
Jean: Okay. The act of not being "Registered" is a "Criminal Offence".
Roger: Yeah. It's a Taxable Offence.  (Jean: O.K.)  A 'Tax' is a criminal charge. (Jean: O.K.)
And they are going to be charged criminally, if they don't aquiesce. But you see, for you, once
you have done this and once you have accepted the Bill, you just give them NOTICE that the
property is exempt from Levy. Because it is pre-paid. Why???  Because now they have
identified you as the Principal and this is where the money came from in the first place.  Now
you want the interest to accrue back to the Principal. They've got to make a "Return", and
they haven't done it. These attorneys are all holding the money "in Bar".
Jean: In other words, they are keeping it in "Unjust Enrichment".
Roger: Right. So, now we are going to bring the "Tax Collector" down on them.
Jean: Oh. They are sticking that money in their pocket instead of paying the taxes on it.

End of Document