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Credo Mutwa Reptilians


Extracted from conversation w/ Roger in October, 2000
 Chit chat

**  From previous conversation you were going to use one of the forms we sent you.

Roger :  Well that'll be awhile.   We're so busy here.  What I was referring to was some section in one of those forms there was an exception… Do you remember the number of the form you're referring to?

**  One is 8038 then there is the termination agreement.

Roger :  Okay these were the private activity bonds.

**  Right

Roger :  It states everything they're doing but then there is an exception…an exception section that I would yellow out.  That is the section that I would question the US Attorney on.

**  Not the misc….?

Roger :  Oh I can't remember off the top of my head.

**  I just sent them up to see if they'd be of any help and any thoughts you may have.

Roger :  Sure they'll enable us to do some things to go after these guys   The rules in these states … well see public money is capitol and private money is principal.  So you see what they've done they go in an obtain principal on the basis of assuming they have an exception…from you…

**  ..and then they capitalize themselves….

Roger :  Well yeah but see what they do is they use private principal to pay off capitol and now you see they're using principal which serves as capital for them.  But you see they're not entitled to it because if they owe anybody they are not entitled to an exemption… Nobody is.

**  Is that a rule or ..??

Roger :  Well it's the way the atomic structure works.  We're expressing the intercourse by using this energy.  So this is the way it equates to our personal relationships.  Nobody really made the rules that's just the way atomic energy works.

** Okay.. and the whole thing is based on that structure?

Roger :  Yeah…

** I think you found a thing in the back in those papers on a termination? a termination on principal?   Well I found on the Fed Res web sight and it went to another web site FFEIC or something like that… see that's a simple form.  It's a one pager.

Roger :  Yeah I know and to use it you need the current OMB numbers… and I think the ones that you sent one of them has expired like for the FDIC but the one like the Board of Governors and the Controller were good yet.

**  Okay

Roger :  See and that may be explained because the FDIC is pure insurance.  So you see they might not have anything to do with backing up these guys on their capital, beings the OMB number is gone, but the others …I think that once we let them know the principal is expired or terminated. Or the best thing rather than terminate the principal is go on in a terminate the principal representative. Then of course the forms went to the government body that's using it.

**  That government body would that be the terminate representative?

Roger :  Well it would be a whole organization… you see it wouldn't be a representative because a representative would be an individual.  It would have to be a title of nobility.   It would have to be embodied in a real person.

**  There is something here that I just have to ask you…there has been something you brought up about British snobbery and then I was noticing this thing with titles of nobility and also with witnesses… I  was curious and I know we were talking about the New Testament vs the Old and it seemed there was a Heraldry relationship… like the British side was claiming the promises of Abraham under a blood line right and they don't want to share them where they are suppose to share them whereas the rest of us are part of the seed because of Jesus. Because of the Christ.

Roger :   Of course.  Yeah that's about right.  But you see the snobbery comes because they're drunk.

*** With power or what??

Roger :  Whatever.  If you  go to a bar in United States you've got to stay under .01?

**  Right

Roger :  Say you could drink a quart of beer here and you would be under 01 but you go over there and go into a Pub and drink a quart there you'd be over… because you'd be drinking the Imperial quart.  It is larger… more there. ( Chuckles)   But you see here in the United States they're not authorized.  They're not registered to do business here in the local communities or it violates the Green River Ordinance.

*** We found something else today in the Internal Revenue Code in ch. 72 in License and Registration.  It says in sec. 7001.  All persons undertaking is a matter of business for profit, the collection of foreign payment of interest and dividends by means of coupons, checks and bills of exchange, so to obtain a license from the Secretary shall be subject to the regulations enabling the government to obtain information required under subtitle A relating as the Secretary shall prescribe.  Well right before that--talking about determination of the fiduciary…that's in IRC sec. 6903 and it says;  "Upon notice of the Secretary that any person that is acting for another person in a fiduciary capacity such fiduciary style shall assume the powers, rights, duties and privileges of such other person with respect of a tax imposed by this title except as otherwise specifically provided and accept that the tax shall be collected for the estate of such other person until notice is given that the  fiduciary capacity has terminated".

Roger :  Yeah, you see, if you just watch your newspaper and whenever you see somebody taking over a corporation or one of their departments or something.  It states "So and So assumed the duties".  So you see they assume that.  There is no authority that puts them in there.

*** They did find another interesting find today to.  When we're under an emergency… they can't collect a tax.

Roger :  Okay well you see that's why we're wrestling with them here…we give them notice that they're delinquent in their taxes.  That's why they go into bar with these attorneys.  That's what that is… it's going into emergency. They run to the attorneys.  See what they're doing is taking principal and substituting it for capital.  These damn attorneys are throwing a blanket over them based upon not a security agreement but they assume here the position that the money they are taking are gifts.  So now they can throw off and not have to recognize any kind of security agreement or a tax.

**  Yeah cause in heraldry gifts has a… that's another one… I'm not sure exactly the meaning but it has something to do with an account.

Roger :  Of course it does.  But you see they assume they have the use of it.  So now when we go in and terminate the representative we can find a representative to rely on, then these things here should do a real job on them.

**  That notice… that notice on termination notice of fiduciary relationship, we were looking that up and I found it in the CFRs and apparently when you ask them for the information or the form with information it appears the equivalent the information disclosed on the 1099OID.

Roger :  Yep

*** Would it be okay to ask for the CUSIP?

Roger :  Oh I'm sure… I'm sure it would be.   Cause you see what I did before I got out of prison.  When I knew I was getting ready to go home I turned in a tender bid for a million bucks to the…. Well I don't remember if it was the Fed Res Bank in Minneapolis or the one in Kansas City--one of those two.  But anyway they gave me … what they do is they send the bidding back.  It was a non-competitive bid and they send the bidding form back with a rejection notice you see… for the reason why--there was no check with it.  Okay?… but they stamped it form and there was a CUSIP number on it. They stamped the form as Original Issue and dated it.  Then along with that rejection notice you see now-- all I was doing was, was doing the process in reverse.  Usually a bank will send there check and what they have to do is they either have to have an SEC Insurance Policy Number to make there check good so that when I turn in my non-competitive bid they got insurance that will pay the damages here so I can collect.

*** Interesting!

Roger :  But you see I did mine in reverse.  I already had this back and I sent it in to the bank and told them "Now here's the rejection notice and here's my Original Issue.  Send your check in to the Fed Res. and  provide me with a CD (Certificate of Deposit) for that amount of money."     I made there check good in advance. (Laughter…) Well see they didn't give me anything back.  They've taken it.  I know damn well they've got the money.  I turned it over to the Police Dept. and when I start to come down to the Police Dept the Police Officer that was in charge of it would always run out the back door.

** Laughter

Roger : And I know he did it because one day when I walked in … I just sauntered up to the bench and I asked the lady if
the guy was in and she said "Oh let me check and see…Who is calling on him?"  I told her and I heard her give the guy my name and I get ready to run out the door while she was trying to tell me "He's not in".   I ran around the building and I saw him running out the back door and jumped in his car.  I didn't catch up with him because he got in his car and got away before I got down there.  Now, with these forms that you provided here, now I'm going to go after Norwest.   Norwest is now Wells Fargo bank here.  There were 90 banks in that chain and Wells Fargo Bank has taken them over.  So now I'm going to let Wells Fargo know if they don't straighten up the account  they're insolvent.  I happen to own all the preferred stock here of the Wells Fargo Bank chain.  Oh yeah… that's what caused the CEO from Norwest to leave.  I did that to them while I was still up in Sandstone. When I find out that the bank is not going to provide me with the CD for that and all the instruments to open my
account and operate the account.  I just wrote a letter to the Norwest holding company and copy went the Norwest branch here.  I just told them "if you don't square this up, I am the Preferred Stockholder here at that bank…. It belongs to me."  Less than 30 days when an article showed up in the Minneapolis Tribune that the CEO Norwest Holding Co disappeared.  There was some article and I didn't think too much of it until about six weeks later… maybe was a couple of months… something like that another article showed up where they found this guy working in a mortgage company in California.   ***more laughter**
They asked him about this and he declined to comment except that … they asked him why he left and he said it was for personal reasons and business reasons.  That was all the he would comment on.

**  I've got some forms… I believe they are either FenCen or FRB.  But they are specifically what the holding companies have to file.  I believe it is Fed. Res.  … But it's forms they have to file with the Fed. Res. Bank.

Roger :  Okay that might be what… things that I need here when I start to go after Wells Fargo.

**  Consider them on their way.

Roger :  See I've got some other banking deals in the past here...  See I put a bid on a National Bank in Denver, years ago.  This was about  in 1980… maybe 84… somewhere back there.  I got the bid on the bank.  But you see then all the other stuff came down on me and I wasn't able to follow it up.  See after I was in prison I found out that the guy that had popped up and alleged here that had a bid here that superceded mine…. He really didn't!  See what it was a manager for Omni Banks in Denver and it was about six banks that took over the Landmark National Bank that I had a bid on. As soon as they were done with him, in about 18 months after the deal of mine that quieted down, they threw him in prison, and I just happened to find out  about it cause I met a guy that I bunked with that bunked with him while he was in Leavenworth.  So anyway I never said anything to this guy about knowing him.  I spent about 6 months quizzing him.  Little questions here and there so I was
absolutely sure that he wasn't coloring anything he was telling me.  You know a lot of guys tell you things they think you want to hear.

**  Right… something that makes a good story.

Roger :  I just wanted to make sure I got the facts out of him.  Once I found that out then I started writing to the FDIC or the Controller of the Currency…. Oh know I wrote to the Resolution Trust Company.   The ones who were settling all the bank failures… or savings and loans.  Finally I told them here that I just wanted them to issue there stock to me for that amount of money.  They were in the business to resolving these defunct banks.  I had the bid on it.  Well they try to quiz you in a sense… "Well we don't believe this or we don't believe that".  But you see I had a couple of attorney's that I hired that were actually in the Controller's office when I relayed the bid to them.

***  Wow

Roger :  They were there for the purpose of filing a Restraining Order on the government to stop the closure of the bank.  But you see, when they do close, that was a real closing.  Do you follow?

**  What's that?

Roger :. That's the closing of escrow… They had to have a legitimate bid to close the bank down.  They didn't have it yet.  The bank was due to close 6 weeks later.  But as soon as they got mine they were in there the next day to shut it down.

*** They used your bid…

Roger :  Yep they used my bid to close the deal.  See it's my money now.   Well I wrote to them a couple of times and then they put me … they put me in touch with the Controller of the Currency.  I wrote to the Controller of the Currency and he tried to give me some double talk to get me off the scent and then he wrote back one time here and said "I'm confused" by some of the things I said.  I just wrote back and said "I'm glad you recognized the fusion of the account."   (** laughter) You know what he did?

***  No, what?

Roger :  He said you need to talk to the FDIC.   So he referred me to the FDIC and when he referred me to the FDIC they told me now that those first two banks didn't exist anymore and the account was in the hands of  Q-Corp? (Sounds like) which was one of the large bank chains.  So what they did, was the FDIC gave me the financial statement of the original bank that I had the bid on and told me to go after  (can't make out--sounds like Q-Corp) for the value.

**  Wow… Interesting.

Roger :  So that is what I intend to do.  If I don't get it, I'll just go into the stock market and bid up Q-Corp stock and tender a draft for the bid I have on it.  I'll take it.

*** The draft against the gentleman who dishonored?

Roger :  Well I ordered the stock… see?  I'll put a borrower in under a broker.   And when he wants to get paid for it here I'll give him a draft.  Not only that because I'll have it attached to the papers  given me  by FDIC.  They've given me the financial statement that said here how much it was worth.    And it was mine.

**  and they used your money to close it so somebody has to get the money to you.?.

Roger :  That's right

**  Got it

Roger :  Okay so now if they get cute with us here we use the forms that you come up with to terminate the representative.  …. Chuckles.

***  It's just funny because they're going to have quite a problem once they're fired.

Roger :  Right if that's the way they want to play it.

**  I'll get those other forms out to you Wednesday.  See I've been trying to figure out the difference between the banks themselves and holding companies and a little bit of that just to get an idea.  I understand there is only like 63 holding companies in the nation.

Roger :  Well you see a real holding company they have to divulge who the owner is.  He has to be registered.  So you can check to see if there's any  registration on those holding companies by using the UCC 11….out in California that would be the 3.  It's the search of records.

*** Right

Roger :  Well run a 3 on the name of the individual who claims to be the owners of those holding companies.   I think if there is a holding company that's a corporation you can get information from Secretary of State to divulge the officers names and addresses.  That are registered on the public side.  Then you see you can run the names on the person's given you that to see if they are privately registered and if they are not then we can move in an take the property because there isn't any registration …they are foreigners and they are not eligible to do business in the local community.  Why?  Because they are foreigners and they haven't posted bonds.

*** Right…

Roger :  So we just go take the property.

**  For them to register… are you talking about a UCC registration?

Roger :  Yes you bet because they have to come into the local community.  That's what municipal funds are.  Okay, now here is where we're going to expose some of the mystery.  You see President Clinton by declaring his executive order---that's a money order!  And the money order is drawn down on the city of Washington DC.  It's municipal funds.  And he's allowing all these Jack***'s to substitute principal for capital.  Now it is coming in being privately capitalized…. But you see they are not entitled to it when they have outstanding claims against them.  They are not exempt!  They are fugitives!  So you see maybe we need to have somebody go in there and… terminate Bill Clinton…chuckles .  That might be unless these guys straighten up their act.  I don't think a guy should do it until they get a warning that --Hey these are the conditions boys, now either you straighten it up here to the legitimate property owners or this is what is going to happen to you.

**  Now with the traffic tickets of the basic things that people get… they do like an acceptance on those things and that's what we were wondering about if it would be right to maybe even ask for the CUSIP on those.

Roger :  Well I don’t know if you have to get that tough with them.  Usually you know you can turn the ticket over to the guy that's making the claim.

***  In the oral proceedings?

Roger :  Let's just say you're in court and in Calif the traffic courts that I've been in years ago… the judge is going to ask you and the patrolman to raise your right hands and repeat after me to take an oath… well you see when that proceeding is going on, I'd just walk over to the patrolman and hand him the  ticket and then walk out.

*** Accepted?

Roger :  Well,  it's not a matter of you accepting it.  You returning it to him here is a tax return.

****  Yea, but have you stamped it with "Accepted for Value" on it?

Roger :  Yeah you could do that.  But the thing is that when you had it in your possession and you returned it to him… see the tax.  Well it isn't a matter of an act of acceptance here it is a foregone conclusion.  That if you had it in your possession and you gave it back to him, then you must of accepted it sometime or another.

**  That's right… gotcha.

Roger :  So you really don't have to go that far to mark up to being accepted to do what you do.

*** A mere endorsement is an acceptance, right?

Roger :  Yeah, I would say it is.

***  In the oral proceedings, like Mr. E,  would you please stand up, How do you decide when to do what the judge says and when not to do…?

Roger :  There is a lot of things that I don't think that we can do justice to ourselves or the subject by discussing it in that realm because that is a general question.  See when you start speculating in generalities what you're doing is you're programming your subconscious mind to the point to where it is confusing it and when you get into the real show down it's not going to warn you… You have to deal with the specifics.  Loose talk about this is not good.

**  Okay .. thanks on that

Roger :  You have to rely on your subconscious mind to warn you of danger.   That's the bad thing about speculating in generalities because we're all making special appearance.  We're dealing in special conditions.  In other words …all of my actions are prejudice.

*** They prejudice us?

Roger :  Well let's hope they do.  See that's the only time here you recognize your own self… your own property.  I'm prejudice!

***  Oh, your prejudice?

Roger :  Darn right I am for me and mine.  See but they try this black white BS here to cover up what prejudice really means.  "Oh you're prejudice here?"… that's bs!  I'm prejudice! Darn right I am to me and mine!  It's not yours!

*** Oh I see.  They're just coveting

Roger :  Yeah… well they're extortionists… you see they covet everybody else property.  But here's the thing here. That does not  generally apply because too many people try to apply it to something it doesn't apply to.  The Ten Commandments apply to the guy on the teller window.

**** That doesn't mean we have a license to violate them?

Roger :  No, but you see you want to specify what those Ten Commandments mean.  When I walk up to a teller window and I've got a check drawn on somebody in that bank and I endorse the check and I hand it to the teller… okay that's when it say's here "Thou shall have no other God's before me".   That is the beginner here where the Ten Commandments apply… because they apply to the straw man which is the antichrist if you want to call it that to the Talmud.  Cause the Talmud just has to do with the straw man.

**  Interesting… **** that is a concept however, nobody has ever warned us that’s the position they had us placed in.

Roger :  Yeah but that's what it is.  And you see, you're not at risk here because the straw man is a fiction.  See this is the mistake in identity that they use your name for the straw man and then it's all these guys here with the "Father forgive them for they no not what they do".   In other words all these titles of nobility don’t know what they're doing.

***  Right

****  I think I might of found something over the weekend.  I was doing some bible study and I stumbled across a definition that come up with a word right out of Strong's.   It's like the God of Language.  So what their God of language did was develop this English language to just kind of whip on us.  You know how you've given us bi-bil, and no bil, how about para bil?

Roger :  Well para… we'd have to take a look at that it's probably Spanish.

***  Para means for.  Not the number 4. but for.

Roger :  Oh fore…

*** There is also Tri bil  - tribal

Roger :  tribal, treble, they are all the same,  triune.  God of 3 parts.

**** Well I think that you mentioned M 1, 2 and 3.  That's there God.

Roger :  Right… yeah-- yeah,  But you see the Lord is God.  The landlord.  See there are different Gods isn't there?

**** Oh yeah there are many Gods.  Bible even tells us that.

Roger :  So when you come to the bank to cash the check they got to recognize the landlord!

**  Now you mentioned 1954 federal Reserve Act about Board of Governors Report.  Is there… Can I get that from the Fed??

Roger :  I don’t know.  Years ago I did try the Fed Reserve.  I got back some negative remarks here that it wasn't available, but whatever it was come in a book form.  It was just a little smaller than a regular sized book.  Maybe a little bigger than a Readers Digest.

**  Right.  Okay

Roger :  It was about an inch thick… inch and a quarter maybe.  Very informative!  But I would think here that if you wrote to maybe the New York Fed Res Bank.. you might be able to get it.

**  Yeah they've got some good forms too.  I'm on the internet and they have these forms just setting there and even the travel or department of the state, like if you were foreign born and you had US citizen parents that you can go and file some certificate and get a birth certificate in the name of the subject as long as you're residing in the United State.

Roger :  Oh yeah but remember here when using the word "subject", well that's British….

**  right I agree, but that is the word they use.

**** do you have a position on taking an oath… negative or positive?

Roger :  Oh I don't know… we own everything here and they give us an oath, I suppose we could take it.

**** Well in doing some studies I ran across censes and the oath are the same thing.  So I didn't realize that when I was involved in the census this year I was giving an oath of allegiance …

Roger :  Were you giving the oath or taking it?

**** Well they were asking how many people were here etc.

Roger :  Well if you were giving the information you're taking the oath and there has to be an exchange.  You need to think about that and what it amounts to.  Just speaking of it in general you're never going to get a definition.  You have to apply it to something.   It's kind of like here, looking out the window on a dark night.  You don't see anything unless it goes up against something.

**  Right… Okay

Roger :  See that's what you have to have.

**  Speaking of the census… I ran across some of the stuff we're doing and you know the census does an auditing of the cities every five years.  An they do one 2002---then 2007, etc.  And it's an audit of their book and its been pretty revealing about some of the financial information they release and it has nothing to do with head count…so it appears… it's primarily seeing what there accounts are about.  The Bureau of Census even admits they don't know what many of the accounts are for.  They really don't have a purpose.

Roger :  Okay but you've got to remember… Cen is like your censorship…censorship when it comes in that word there has been a commercial  ship that has been created.  A ship here to sail on the sea of commerce. Censorship -- well whoever sent yours ..see it says in the bible that the censors were the apostles.  An that's what apostasy is [apostasy = a complete giving up or renouncing of one's profession,  principles, party, etc.] So you just keep going along with this line of censorship is not an individual, the censorship is of the business organization of these governments.

**  Yeah the government seems to be pushing on them too.  There was some recent executive order that I ran across that Clinton's actually telling the Federal agencies to be lenient when the state and local government seek waivers and things like that.

Roger :  They are vulnerable.  I always relate it to rubies where all the palace intrigues where they keep there eye on all these people in the palace.  Well that's kind of what they do in the prison system.  You see you're locked over on the other side of the fence and now you see you're subject to all censorship.  All your correspondence coming in and out is censored through the FBI office.  But mainly it's in St. Paul, Minn.  Because Minnesota ---isn't interesting they call it the "land of ten- thousand lakes"?  why not 10,003 here?  Or 11,000 or 9,000?  But it's exactly 10,000 lakes.  Or is it just the $10,000 for the national bond for St. Paul?  That St. Paul is the intermediate headquarters!  Would that not be St. Paul of the Bible?  ** Oh Wow!  

*** That's interesting!

Roger :  Isn't that who we talk to all the time.  See that's where the power is centered.  Bureau of government.

**  I finally understand the mil levy.  That kind of thinking and you break it down and even start bring up the generations.  That's incredible … cause you never even think of looking at it that way.  Like the zero's are pushing the 1.

Roger :  Umhumm

**  We are just in amazement how you put this all together… how did you even see that?

Roger :  Well because you see I was involved in it when I was on my farm.  I grew up in a rural community.  I was on the township board.  We'd conduct the polls… close the polls… count the votes… seal them and haul them to the county auditor.  Things like that.  My Dad he was a county manager for 35 years.  He also did other things for the organization for all federal funds to come into the local venue.

**  Through the state?

Roger :   Comes in through the ASCS - Agricultural State Conservation Service.  I think they call it something else now.  Because you're banks can't even get funded unless they are holding surplus treasury bonds and the surplus treasury bonds had to be given value by municipal funds.  So even the treasuries here is not an original amount of money.  It had to of been funded by a municipal.

**  Now we are wondering … how does that work?  Is there a procedural thing for them or …?

Roger :  Sure it is, but it isn't something I just give you off top of my head…  There are all kinds of procedures.  There is so much mystery behind this… all the corruption of the country is surrounded around this…That's how come the city of Chicago is so notorious.  That's the 7th district/ 7th circuit and that's the circuit that rules on the kind of money that represents Insurance Bonds.

Chit Chat****

****  These people they want redemption… they just don't want it from the bible.

Roger :   Well then just leave them behind…  We're not in the business of selling anything.  We never sell anything, we only buy.  If anything is going to be sold the broker has to do it.

Roger :  That's right… I'm not kidding.  He is the one with the license.

***  We have a meeting here and one guy brought in a copy of a birth certificate to do with his UCC1.  On part of the copy in the margin…

Roger :  Was there a note in the margin that pertained to banking?  Some of the people in the prison they'd mark their initials in the margin when they were exchanging contracts.  They'd mark their initials in the margin.  Then it would pass through that particular person.

**  This one here where they put it in the book says " Margin reserved for binding.  Right plainly with unfading ink, this is a permanent record.  For economy and convenience use both sides--first A next B.  This blue blank must not be distributed to the public.  It is furnished solely for local registrars in their own offices either in keeping the local record or in furnishing to the county recorder for the special county record for complete and accurate copies, whether for a city any size or for a rural district."  Then it says "in case of more than one child at birth, a separate return must be made for each and a number of each at birth must be so stated."  I didn't expect them to call this a return, but that margin reserved for binding was pretty open to me.

Roger :  Oh yeah and it means just exactly that.  We had some things we had to go through in the prison, when you were reading instructions or reading something you take every little item literally!  Binding-- oh yah then you better examine every item that means binding.

**  Well I did a little… you were talking about making an expression, in the atomic structure, in expression? Well I recently was looking up impress… an I started thinking impress and express are just the opposites, like import and export.  And impression, like birth certificates have an impression on them.. right?  Well is has two uses on them at the same time as a verb because it is also the seizure of  someone for public service.

Roger :  Oh yeah.  See that's what was one of the settlements between Briton and the United States and the colonies.  That they wouldn't impress our sailors into the British admiralty.

**** However, they're in the British admiralty right now and don't know it.

Roger :  Yeah

**   The whole things with the (muffled) and the titles of nobility…

Roger :  Well the reason is they are counterfeiting the securities of the colonies.

*** Who is?

Roger :  Everyone is hollering at the politicians for using the soft money.

**   Counterfeiting?

Roger :  That's what it is… soft money is counterfeiting… all that is, is corporate money being changed between corporations.  See they're coming into our local communities and laying claim to our property and going in doing our bidding at option and we don't have any money to bid.  They're bidding it with counterfeit securities. That's exactly what that soft money is.  These politians are getting away with it openly.

**  I think that even the SEC said that a check is a security in the first place.  It is a class 3 security issued by a corporation.  When somebody pays you a pay check.  They are actually giving you a security because they are not actually giving you the money.   SEC even came down on that.

Roger :  See that’s why they want us to start using checks instead of cash.  The police work with the cash money… where did it come from.

*** In Wisconsin, it was on the new, that the police are using credit cards right on the spot, like when you get a speeding ticket they just swipe your credit card right there.
Roger :  Well that's good… **** laughter***  No.. really, because what people don't understand that once we create the debt and we accept and acknowledge a debt from a vendor or in other words from the person who says we owe them… Lets just say those people are vendors, okay, see once we acknowledge the debt and then apply credit cards to it, the credit card company then has to process but they always come back to us with negative language and say "if you don't pay up to avoid the collection we're going to turn it over to collection to prosecute".  But what you want to do is tell them to "Yes, please collect as soon as you can that's what I've been trying to get you to do".  But they have to collect through you're straw man to collect on the fiduciary creditor.

*** How do they collect through your straw man?

Roger :  They have to use that name because you have to tell them it's for my benefit that these fiduciaries are operating.  They can't possess anything in their own name…in their titles.  They have to possess or function their accounts for the benefit of the owner.

**  That was another thing I wanted to ask you about.   You know the whole witnessing idea?  Where you have to have the two witnesses…  Well it came to me that you basically take the item you received--and I was trying to figure this out---do you take it straight to the bank? Or do you accept it and take it to the bank to get them to deny it?

Roger :  Well you have to have the … you accept it.  And of course you go right back to the person who gave you the bill.. and return it to them.  But you see … a better way to do that is acknowledge the bill here and pay for it here with a credit card.  Now you see you have bound the testimony of the vendor.   It's a lot easier to settle with a card company.

** Okay… but I was thinking you had to have a witness…

Roger :   You do have a witness--the vendor.  The vendor and you are now here on equal ground.  Cause he got his money from you and the card company now has testified to it because they declared the credit.  You got to remember when a tax lien comes against you… against your account… it goes against your creditors.  We're dealing indirect with international money now.  Not directly with National money.  It is indirectly with international money.   Indirectly or indirect taxation means the fiduciaries have it all in their possession.  So you see the two witnesses are the debtors and the creditors.  Fiduciary debtor and fiduciary creditor.  They might call you the debtor because it is your account they are administering, so we just say "yeah".  That's the account but deal with my fiduciary debtor and my fiduciary creditor which is not me.

** Okay then I misunderstood something cause I'm just trying to figure this out.  You mentioned taking something to the bank and they would send you a letter saying something like… they wouldn't deposit it in the bank and it would say it has no financial value..  So I was under the impression that you took that acceptance over to the guy that made the offer because now you have the dispute between them and not you.

Roger :  Well just generally speaking, now we have to look back here and see just where the debt was from.  You see you're getting down here and I don't want to give a general answer to this…you've got to follow a debt.

**  I'll give you my impression.  This is where I was taking it…  Was if I had the witness that it was worth nothing and I had a witness that it was claiming it was worth something.  When the one who was claiming it was worth something were to dishonor the acceptance, they were dishonoring my witness who I have my account with…

Roger :  Yeah but then you see, what would happen here, when they refuse, then the person who refuses or the account refuses to accept, that person now is the debtor.  In other words, that is why you are telling the bank to charge the account because the bank can charge your account either way.  That person at the bank makes presentment to will either give the bank acceptance of some kind, so the bank can take that and charge your account… okay?  OR if that person dishonors, the bank still charges your account and now they hold that person on his dishonor.

** That's what I was thinking with the banks letter, it would be easier for me … here they give us a hard time to get them to make presentment for acceptance or dishonor because they were dishonored.  They told me it was worth nothing and therefore they were my fiduciary so I'm binding them to be the fiduciary.

Roger :  Well I think what we are going to have to do .. is --it is easier to do it through a credit card company.

**  Agree

****  But I've never had a credit card… and no one will give me one

Roger :   Well go out and buy one.  Put up the $200 and they'll give you one to get started.  Once you start dealing with them and start using it, you'll get others.  You'll be flooded with them.

**  Also people with tax liens can't get them either

Roger :  If you have a tax lien you want to write and ask for a Certificate of Release.

***  Would you request that from the county recorder?

Roger :   Right.  See the tax lien goes against the tax payers creditors.

*** Who are refusing to give credit?

Roger :  Or have given credit in the past.  That's who the lien stands against.  You see the tax payer has to request the Certificate of Release first.  They're not entitled  to it if they don't do it.  You receive not because you ask not.   Chuckles

****  I just wish I could get my darn car fixed…

Roger :  Well just take it to a mechanic, have it fixed and give him a POMC.

***  What's that?

**   Public Office Money Certificate

Roger :   Right or a draft.  Drawn down on the straw man.  If the auto repair is a registered corporation they'll pass it through.

**   I wish the state of California was a little easier, that's all.  The businesses out here.  Everybody is so hard and suspicious.

Roger :   Well the reason it don't work most of the time is the financial promotion gets started and there are too many people jump into it without regard or taking seriously  like you say here the spiritual concepts.  They don't adhere to them.  The next thing is they're down at the local pub celebrating and bla bla bla.  So what happens is the fiduciaries or attorneys that work for these corporations they draw your name up on a profile and find out about your life style you go on they start giving you crap about it.

*** That's kind of what happened with the sight drafts huh?  People started using them and weren't prepared for them.   The hardest part I see is where people have to re-value why they live there life.  They are living for the money and find out there isn't any money….   Chuckles

Roger :  I tell you what I got a check here one time from a guy that was drawn down on Federal Land Bank or it was made out from Federal land Bank to me… but you see I never got it into my possession it was always handled by fiduciaries, if you want to call it that.  A couple of years later, I was in a law suite with the guy, he gave me a copy of the check because that's when he decided he wasn't blaming me for his problems anymore.  He sued me, but then when he found out that the check that he thought came out of his account for the Federal Land Bank was made out to me and I never got it because you know what the endorsement showed on it??  It said "Credit to the account At.  The within name payee"  which was me and absence of endorsement guaranteed. Suburban National Bank.

***  Oh it was the bank…??

Roger :  Yeah it was just a stamp.  It said Absence of Endorsement Guaranteed.  But you see they are guaranteeing the Absence of the Endorsement.   ** Laughter**   there's no money.

***  We swear, there is no signature here….   More laughter

Roger :  That check was for 244,000 bucks.  Well you see if you start snooping around like collection companies an that… If you run a UCC3 on them and or if you find out the name of the collection company and write to the Sec of State and ask for the names of the officers who registered the business in the state.  Pretty soon you'll begin to see these organizations are registered like you would open and account with a broker.  Matching funds… They put up 5000 units… you put up 5000 units.  Now you've got an account here for 10,000 that you can buy and sell securities all through a broker.  That's how all these companies, like collection agencies are set up. Most of the national collection agencies use to be internal revenue officers.  See what they do then when you check up on them they don't call it dollars… they call it international units.  5000 could equal 5 million, 50 million or 5 billion.  See this is where the algebra comes in.

**  I shared something with ** something I found in the tax code about functional currency.  That basically if you put a $ sign it becomes functional currency for whatever it's on.  It even gets into adjustments of the accounts… all about functional currency.  It's one of their CFR's.

Roger :   Oh okay.  You see.. you got to remember Code of Federal Regulations it's not statute, it's code.  The code is what the evidence is drawn on indirectly.  You have to have a fiduciary for the witness.  To interpret the code for you… he's licensed.

**  Okay so the reason that I brought that up was that I know there are like 17 countries that use the dollar sign and so when it comes down to the international currency that you were saying, like international soft money… That's moving around and the denomination on the bill if it's a dollar sign--it's a cross.  I mean it's the same.

Roger :   Well some of that… I don't know if I can find the book.  It's pretty heavy.  I got one here that is on the atomic fund…

**   On the fund?  Like the international monetary fund…?

Roger :   Right.  That's what it is.  It is kind of like the case law.  Forgot the name of it here.  Whenever there is a case about who pays what in a course of speaking…for instance here it is going to be used for the exchange, it all has to equate into US dollars and all other currencies become measurable in the world.

***  Oh we found a web page that the Euro is backed by treasury bills..

**   Actually US is basically it is Fed Res Notes deposited in foreign banks by other banks which wasn't real explanatory.  Basically this soft money is backing everything in the world….

Roger :   Oh yeah, they have their own ways of determining how much paper it takes these other countries to stand against the dollar so you've got equity in the exchange.  Cause equity is military.  See because your equity as opposed to your personal claim on personal property, see the equity is all military because it is contest.

**   Just like heraldry

Roger :   Yeah, you see, or when you break it down into physics …lets just say you're going to take for instance a blade on a helicopter or the wing on an airplane.  As that wing or blade is going through the air the pitch that they put the blade to, they call that the angle of attack.  Then you see you can start to measure everything here in physics and geometry.  And then for unknowns then you can use your algebra.

**   Well thank you very much… ***  Yes thank you very much.  **** Thank you and Good night