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Credo Mutwa Reptilians


Transcript of Conversation W/ Roger Elvick - September 6, 2001
 ** Oh Hi, did you just get in?

Roger : Well no, I've been in for awhile and just got my shower and trying to get something to eat, but I can eat an talk.

** We've got a couple of things going on.  One is when people call you like with your credit cards or some other type of collection or whatever and you know how they always want to know if you are your name, like is this B** B**?  What if we were to say "That is my name?"

Roger : No--No, don't tell them anything!  Just tell them I don’t do business over the phone and hang up on them.

** Well I use to say, "Who's calling?" and they would give me a first name and a company, and I would request both names or wouldn't talk to them, so now they are giving me both names.

Roger : Yeah I know.

** This one gal tried it and said "That is my name".  Like with an ownership to the name tone.  And the caller was sort of taken back for a minute like she had hit on something.  They were calling on something with a credit card for a gas company and apparently the bill was pretty high and she had been accepting it and paid for it with a draft.  Now the bill is much higher and she hasn't even been using it.  She ended up talking to some supervisor trying to find out who is using it.  Guess she'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Roger : Yeah I wouldn't testify to anything…or give them any information.

** Okay, now I have another situation with the FTB and I accepted it and used a check from my closed checking account.  That was several months ago.   Then about a month after I had sent it in I received another statement basically the same as the one I had accepted so I just wrote on that "Accepted -- please provide me with the product of your offer", signed and dated and put on my employer ID# and sent it all back.  Now today I just got another two bills, one for the penalty and the other said "Dishonor" and then the reason was because my check was drawn on a "closed checking account".

Roger : Yes!!!  Okay a dishonor see is the admission of a delinquent tax.  So they are admitting they are tax delinquent.  Well I think rather than to get into these controversies, we … well you may want to give them an Article 9 Notice.  This kind of approach we've been doing leads to too much controversy and we need to bring these people accountable for their dishonor.

*** Everything is still fine for us to go ahead and try to collect equity, Right?

Roger : Oh yeah!

** Okay good.   Someone told me that someone up north was told not to do anything because there was a step missing and too many people were ending up in jail or something to that affect.  I wanted to check with you because everything down here is going pretty smooth.

*** Maybe those people we're not up to speed for what they are doing…

Roger : I don't know …

*** If I write a draft and make it payable through somebody that owes me is that like taking equity or no?… cause they're not going to provide me remedy..

Roger : Well yes it is cause you're going to go get the product.  And you're going to give them a draft when they give you the product.  What you're doing is you're telling them to collect through this other person… It's not saying "Collect FROM that other person it is saying, collect THROUGH that other person."  That other person has to pass the account through them, and they either have to accept or refuse.  When they refuse now they are accountable for the debt. Because the refusal you see, is the identity of a defendant.

** Oh Okay.  We've been talking to J**, the group from Michigan that's in jail.  Is there anything that we can do from here to help them?  Or do they pretty much have to do their own redemption?  They are going to court Friday I guess.

Roger : Well they've got ** over there.  See somebody is taking equity… and they are taking 'em private.  That's why you don't have any way of getting information.   But you see when you've got a court action going and they move on you like that they are assuming that there is a court appointed attorney.  When in fact there isn't.

** I guess the judge sort of tripped up one of the guys that wanted to bring the parole officer to the stand for direct exam and the judge said "Oh your acting as Pro Se" (as your own attorney) and he agreed in the affirmative.

Roger : Sure they are assuming that you are holding yourself.

** Right instead of him just standing mute and not saying anything.

Roger : Yeah or else just call for the court appointed attorney.  That's when you want to examine the court appointed attorney.

*** Why would you say there is no appointed attorney… did you say something like that earlier.

Roger : Yeah, I'm sure that the R**L** that are being held and we haven't been able to get any remedy yet.  That's what's afoot there because they have gone through the questions and one thing or another and they have done this here just fine.  But the person who has moved on them has moved against them privately…

*** So then the court appointed attorney is more of a public kinda thing and doing this privately they are going around them…

Roger : Well yeah it could be a private attorney.  You see when you're in a court scenario and they are getting ready to railroad you off to jail…   I told you about this guy out in Ohio a while back that called for the court appointed attorney, when he asked if the court appointed attorney was in the audience.  Well see I know that there has to be somebody that has to be responsible for holding the bond.  Okay now in some cases this could probably be the jailer.  Now maybe he isn't there, maybe he had to assign his duties to somebody who could be there.  So you see when you ask for this person, "Is this person there" it was like when this guy asked that, there was some female that got up and ran out of the court room.  Well I'm pretty sure they have had lots of people over the years do that duty.  They've got to be there 'cause they may be called on but they never are.  So they get pretty confident and just sit there as a matter of routine.  But all of a sudden this one finds out that she is being called and gets up and runs.  So what happens is the prosecutor gets up and announces that the charges on this case are dropped.
See you don't want a dismissal you want the charges dropped!  When they are dropped they are grounded.

** So we want the charges Dropped to ground them instead of dismissed?  Okay good!

Some chit chat about the work in the fields….    Want to know when he can get into some real serious redeeming!!!!   Won't be until mid October.

*** Well I went to the car dealer to get a firm offer to get a signature,  and talk about a small world, the finance manager lives right across from me in my apt bldg.

Roger : I've got a guy out east somewhere that went in and drove off the lot with a new pickup.

** Oh is that the guy in Indiana?

Roger : No this is a different guy I'm not sure where he is exactly, maybe Missouri.  See the way he did it, he got the information here from the dealer and they signed the purchase agreement and he wrote on it "Certificate of Origin - Non-transferable".  Then he told them he needs that information to go and get his own financing and he let them take the contract with him.

** Yeah see that’s a tough one because these guys here won't sign until you give them a  deposit.

Roger : I had a guy that went in a bought a trailer house.  He called and said these people want a down payment.  I told 'em that before you can give them any money you have to be sure about the plates that you have to take it out on the highway and whatever.  The guy at the sales lot knew that she had called somebody cause she had a cell phone and made the call during the negotiations.  So anyway he assumed she was talking to her banker.  He asked her who she banked with and she said "I can't give you that information, that her banking is private matter and its protected by the privacy act".  The salesman didn't pursue it.  He just let it go.  I told her, well you just tell him that if they can guarantee that you can take delivery at a place on your property, because they have to put up some structure to set the house on and they are going to do the work.  Anyway they got them to agree to put all the costs into the agreement.   The buyer told them if you can put all the costs together on there and this I have to have on there and he just wrote on there Certificate of Origin - Non-Transferable and he turned to the guy and said "This has to be on it".  The salesman said something to the effect he didn't know about Certificate of Origin, but buyer told him,  "If you can just sign it with all these other conditions and after I've talked to my banker, and if you can do these things and I can take delivery of the item at the time and place at my farmstead", he told the salesman "I can give you a check for the whole thing".    So the salesman worked up all the paperwork and signed it, gave it to the buyers and they signed it and boom everything went fine. She (one of the buyers) called and said that the manufacture had received payment and everything was coming about on schedule.

** wonderful

Roger : That meant that the dealer had to issue his check to the manufacturer to get it going.  So all they do is take your check into account, and with your check in there they write there's to the manufacture and they are paying all the help etc, why?  Because they have your exemption now. So that one is coming off without a hitch.

** Wow that is wonderful!

Roger : See this other guy, see the reason he got off the lot with the truck, it wasn't because of the purchase agreement, but you see he went with the DMV then to register the vehicle.

** So that's the guy that was charged and they took him to jail then let him out on his own recognizance?

Roger : Right…see when he got his registration done that way, that takes the money argument away from these attorneys.  That's how come everyone goes to jail.  Cause they get into a money argument.  He's going in and we're proving where there is a transfer, they can't prove a first sale.  Because all it is a transfer of an account.  And with a transfer there is no redemption.  So they can't prove a sale.  A sale you have to pay for something.

** Okay… right.

Roger : But you see with a transfer, the debt still exists and with a debt somebody is still holding it.  It just gets moved around to somebody else's hand.

** You can't redeem

Roger : So this guy he went and registered the vehicle and then he walked back to the dealership and he's got the license plates and he's got the registration certificate in his hands, he gives it to them, the mechanic puts the plates on the pickup, they give them the keys, he signs the acknowledgement form from the company an leaves.  But he also insured the vehicle too before he came back.

** Has he gone to court and what happened?

Roger : Oh yeah… He went into court and hit the prosecutor with a notice telling him to drop the charges that his complaint was defective because the escrow is closed and the contract, which is an overriding contract, was the certificate of title from the State.  That's a closed escrow.

** Whoo!! Wonderful

Roger : It's a closed escrow, so prosecutor can't enter because he doesn't have any interest in the contract.  Well the prosecutor happens to be the states attorney.  I told him to serve the papers on him in open court.  Well he didn't do it, he went into the guys office and did it.   That was okay, the prosecutor then did not appear at the time.  But the guy goes into court and started jawing with the judge and whatever and the judge is telling him well you have to do this---this---and this when they don't even have any damn charges around there.  He should of just flipped them off or thumbed his nose at them and left.  See another thing he didn't tell me everything and he was a real green horn when he went in and out of this action.  The problem here is he hasn't gotten the vehicle back yet so he even started to bring a complaint to the state police.  And of course the state police when he went in to report a stolen vehicle they called the police department and then they came in an threatened him with bodily harm.

** No kidding… wow they're turning into real villains!

Roger : So then I told him. "Okay now your going to take the head of the patrol office, run a UCC 11 on him (CA is a UCC3 that is an information) just file an information don't file an information and copies, just mark it information, that's all you need."

*** Does that identify him in as a debtor?

Roger : Well it registers him in the contract with you.  He's an employee now.  But you see his name is identified in another jurisdiction.  But he thought he could escape.  And then of course  he made the complaint that the guy threatened him with bodily harm and that patrol officer is responsible for it.  He's filing it on a UCC 3 (CA UCC2) then everything that was filed in court that caused the State's attorney to drop the charges and fail to appear that is going in also with the report to the State Patrol that the vehicle is stolen and they are requested to recover the vehicle and deliver it at his time and place that he selected.

** Okay… good

Roger : So we'll see what happens once it goes through the Secretary of States office.  He still has some other problems here because he hasn't got any redeemed filings or things like that, so he still has a hoop or two.  He did demonstrate that that's the way you get the vehicle.  That proved that the dealership does not have a claim on the vehicle.

** Well you know the DMV does not want to file these.  You take the invoice over there and the sales slip and say okay I'm going to get this registered….

Roger : You're problem is you're using a sales slip.  You need to stay away from that.  Just give them and request and information on the vehicle.  Because we're going to go in and we're going to prove there is no sale.  HJR-192 is in effect.  So what you do is you go in and you give them a check on your closed account. (Your private account) Then the bank is going to say "Account closed".  That means here that the bank is eligible to be called as a witness to prove HJR-192.

** Okay…

Roger : See this guy… well the reason that worked for him right there on the spot was because he drew down on an internal revenue agent for taking money out of his account a few years earlier.  But there were a lot of things going on there that we learn a lot from.  But he did some things, that I really told him not to but he went ahead with the drafts anyway.  Would of made it easier for him if he had of used the drafts.

** You know the guys that are arrested over in Michigan, when they went to the grand jury, was that about the same time the grand jury contracted you?

Roger : Way last spring?… Probably was.

** Because it looks like they are trying to tie in what the Montana Freeman did with what they were using.  That's at least the way the newspaper wrote it up.  They were trying to paint everything all the same making it an ugly picture.  So these guys are being charged with sending drafts to the Washington D.C. Treasury?

Roger : I don't know, I expect so.   ** is pretty well informed… he knows what to do.  I just don't have the time to get into it.   So much of this stuff you have to get in a look at the details.

** Right.  And it really is personalized and that is why you need to understand the energy so  well that you can make your own decisions and judge it  on moment by moment events.

Roger : Yeah, I just get so much mail and then whatever else I have going on with other things to do.

*** I just got a letter and it says we are returning your check under separate cover… chuckles

Roger : Oh under cover huh?

*** Anyway R we really appreciate how much fun you've make all this to study.

** The main reason I called is because someone told me that a group up north was told, apparently by you, no to do anything more because there was a step missing… People are going to jail etc.   We don't think there is a step missing but figured we better check and hear it from you directly before we stop anything.

Roger : Oh there might have been something somebody had said… I don't recall… there are so many things….

*** I'm having lot of fun here paying my utilities and some of the other things using the drafts or private checks.  They threaten but they haven't turned anything off.

Roger : Well you see you need to take a look at the revised Article 9 Section 614.  We need to start to take some steps and a….

** Oh ** and ** are putting together a Bill of Sale and I when they get that done I'll fax it to you.  They want it to look like an invoice.

Roger : See I've got a UCC 2000 book.  I've got another one but I don’t know where it is right now but you can find this in the index section in the 2000 book.  Now someone that has a later one it is in the general text.  It being revised.

** I got an email from D* today and she said there was an awful lot of information that comes from that 1998 Tax Reform Act that you can really accept the charges on that to show what they have to be accountable to.

Roger : Well yea, but the trouble with that is everything says they have to be accountable to this, but you see there is nothing to make them be accountable.  See we have to take the equity.

** We have to take stuff from them…

Roger : We have to take it… it is not given.  See that's what equity is all about.  Equity works upon magnetism or attraction.  So that's why we have to take.

** And just our taking the stuff even if we have to get a tow truck and make them come after us.

*** Yeah cause if they were going by the voluntary we would not have a problem getting our stuff.

Roger : What they are doing is they are operating under the Rules of Dishonor.   So that's why we have to take the alternative so that means we have to take the equity.  That is what equity is… the taking.  And that's what they are doing.  That's how come they are holding some of these people… they  are  taking  their  equity!  And then they are locking them down some way with the assumption they are holding themselves.  Then you see you can't call anybody and things like that.  If you don't know the whole scheme here you're just helpless.  There's nothing you can do…meanwhile they're just sittin back laughing because they haven't got anybody that is immediately at risk.

*** What if they are holding you?  …

** No but if they have somebody…

*** The assumption  play puts someone at risk because you're in there and you can't do anything about it? By the assumption of the position they have?

Roger : Well there are things that you can.  We have to take equity.  So that's when we have to take and pledge enough of their people that have dishonored us that you see so it's a hostage exchange.  X-change.   See when Christ turned over the money changers.. okay that's changers , but you see now we're dealing with X - change.--- there is no change or no money.  That's why they call it X.  .. All my X's live in Texas.  Chuckles.

** Interesting

Roger : That's why they call it exchange, because there isn't any.  Like Exofficiao!

*** Like X - wife.  Not your wife no more.

Roger : Nobody there.

** Okay good.  Guess we've taken up enough of your time… Probably have people lined up to talk to you.

*** Well R, we'll get to moving on this equity.

Roger : See I think the easiest is to perfect the deal on the automobiles.  Because all these jerks are vulnerable to it because they drive cars.  Once we can perfect it and get around this money issue, then we can start to move on them cars and they are going to have to do something to make sure they don't have people who are going to be moving on these jerks.

*** What they're going to have to do…you know how you said these infidels all laying by the pool and they can't do anything until you pick them up and make them do something.  After we pick them up and take their property and make them do something, is that going to help the other ones stand up and do there job?

Roger : Remember this… They can't discharge their duties until the account has been charged.  There can't be a discharge until there is a charge…

** Yeah but they can set it in suspense and hold you …

Roger : I had a guy call me today and was telling me he had talked to a law professor at some University that was teaching intermediate accounting.  And they call that a contra account..

** Contra Account… Interesting!

Roger : Yeah.  Well that means it's contraband.

** Oh I was thinking controversial!

Roger : See it's called a contra account and you're calling it a suspense account.

** Right okay I was thinking controversy.

Roger : But it's suspending… like when you walk into a court room and they say "All Rise".  You're suspended above the earth. .. Suspense!  Contra!

** Okay

Roger : See these guys are dealing in contraband.

** On that IRS or FTB thing.. on how I should handle that.  I should write them a letter back?

Roger : No just go take… Or ask them for the tax lien.  In the tax lien it has the release right there.  It serves as the release.

** No not the Franchise Tax Board one.  I have a copy of it.

Roger : Okay well write to the Franchise Tax Board and ask for the Certificate of Release is for the….

** I was thinking of asking them for my copy of the 1099 OID so I would know who was the fiduciary Debtor and fiduciary Creditor.

*** Yeah but R if she gets a copy of the lien she can sign it back to them and that takes care of it.  Right?

Roger : Well then we should have the information of who the nominees of the lien are?

** Right which would come with the 1099 OID.

Roger : Right, it should, cause we need to know who these people are and who is using the money.  But you see if they are not and they refuse it see then you go into Article 9, Section 614 and start moving against the private property of the Secretary of State.

** Oh, okay.  I was thinking of moving against that gal that I have a name of that came to my door unannounced and uninvited.  That's the only name I have ever got.

Roger : Well buy something and use her name on the draft on the payable through and use her name to pay for it.  You can even do that with ordering from catalogues.

*** Oh I've ordered all this stuff from this catalogue and they keep sending me more stuff and I keep giving them private checks.

** Well I'd have to buy something pretty big cause now they sent me a money order for $37,584.90 Plus now they have charged me with a penalty because they dishonored my check because why? .."The account was closed".

Roger : Then you can buy something 37 times…  See just like I got an American Express and that thing was closed out quite awhile ago.  I cut it up and sent it back to them back in 1977, but I use it once in awhile because I use it because somebody wants me to pay a bill so I give them the American Express.  Then they'll come back and say American Express refused it do you have any other form of payment… chuckles… course I do.  Then I give them a draft and then draw down on Alfred Kelly (owner of American Express).  Let it pass through him.  Well the last time I did that I got a call from somebody in salt Lake.  I think that is where he's got some accounts.  She was wondering why I drew that draft down on Alfred Kelly.  I said he doesn't pay his bills.  She said "I don't understand that."  I said, "Well he owns American Express."  She said, "Yes", Well, I said "American Express charged the account at my instruction so I said here they're delinquent cause they dishonored me and they don't pay the bills.  So when they don't pay the bills I give them Alfred Kelly's name."  I told her it doesn't surprise me because he's a "welcher".  I said he doesn't pay his bills ….See they don't like to hear that.  All these guys think they are holier than thou.  I tell them he's is nothing but a delinquent welcher on his debts and he doesn't pay his bills.

*** I had a catalogue and I ordered a bunch of stuff for my van and it came COD.  I said is it about $1300.  and she said no it is $1520.  I said okay, and just made up a draft.

Roger : Oh yeah, I got a new computer the other day…

** Oohh good!…

Roger : Yeah it’s a lap top.  Got a flier through here, filled it out and mailed it in… forgot about it.  Next thing the UPS shows up.  UPS man says I've got to get a check from you for $48.75 or something like that.  Well it wasn't to be made out to UPS but to the company I got the computer from.  So UPS takes the check and forwards it on to them after giving me the computer.  I think it was a Dell flier.  Zippo… it's a done deal

** Oh this guy back east got a call from the bank and she told him I've got a check here drawn on a closed account… is there any special instruction on how you want me to handle this?  I told him to tell them to charge the account out of the accrued reserves.

Roger : Yeah… or my payors account which is their corporation… chuckles.

** Oh good okay!

Roger : Take a look at the envelope draft… the one with the blue print… the extra large envelope…it has it on there.  You see when information is given that your account is closed.  That’s  the public side of the account.  But you see the private side is still there because that number still belongs to you.  When I ask for information I just tell them I can't give you that, that's private…. It's none of your business.  If they say, "Well your account is closed".  I just tell them "yeah, that's the public side."  That's what the closing of escrow is.  It's closed to the public now it is all private.  You see the evidence is when they charge the account, the corporation actually has to set that money into account and then they send it into the electronic funds transfer and it doesn't come back.  It goes to zero.

** Oh

Roger : When they say "Well we got the check back".  Sure they did.  We got the check marked "NOT PAID"  why… because there was no transfer.  They can't transfer.   It was not transferable.  It goes to zero.  There is no debt.  They are confessing HJR-192.  That's the confession of it right there.

*** Yeah I'm having fun with my landlord.  She gave me the account even though she wasn't suppose to.  (Something else but hard to understand… something about them being a corporation.)

Roger : Well the bank has to still be responsible for it even if they aren't a corporation.

*** It's a corporation.

Roger : Oh well then she's collecting for it than.

** Are we using "Refusal" and "Dishonor" interchangeable?  Aren't they the same or different?

Roger : No they're the same.

** I thought so but just wanted to be sure.  And guess what else I got one of these little pittly credit cards for $300.  I can do that in one store in about an hour.

Roger : Well I think that you can focus on your checks with the private account.

** I think so too.  Especially now you can do checks by phone just like they use to do credit cards.  Just give them your account numbers.

*** I went to Radio Shack and go myself a little tape recorder and some other things and just gave them my check.

Lost some when I had to turn the tape over

Roger : ???…gave them a check and the auctioneer came after him.  The auctioneer told him… see the guys a truck driver.  The guy is half way across the country and he is talking to him on a cell phone and tells him.  When you get here I'm going to be waiting for him with the Sheriff and my attorney.

**  So you have to take delivery once you accept.  You have to force delivery?

Roger : So they were demanding that this guy turn the item back to them.. and he said "No, I'm not going to give it back".  See he knows what is going to happen.

*** If he gives it back he's going to jail…

Roger : Right, then they take it and him too and use it as evidence against him.  So he told them you guys be there and be sure that you're there with the charges.  Because the charges that they are hollering about are empty.   They don't have any.

** Oh good-- make them produce the charges.

Roger : Right-- Make them produce the charges!!  See he has got to be there with a deputy because he can't get a warrant.  That's because when he issued his check that is a warrant.  His check is the warrant for the order.  They have to take him privately into custody by equity.  They can't use the law any more -- they have to go by equity.

** Which is kidnapping!

Roger : So you see now when they come on him they are going to have a deputy probably to offer you the contract.  And when he does you just take it from him, Accept it and Stuff it right back to him in his stomach. (just return it)

** Oh you don't have to put the whole legend on there do you.

Roger : Well he probably won't have time to write anything on it.  I said just take it and return it right back at him.  That's the facts that have to occur.  But you see they did get a little bit shook here when he told them "Then you be there and you be there with the charges". Not only that you see, when they fail to turn over the item then they are going to have a problem with the Internal Revenue Service.  You can just tell them, well if that is the case then I'm going to have to compel you to produce your tax returns.

*** That would almost be the same thing when I tried to buy these bikes and they ran the check through and they wouldn't give them to me because of the check not going through I need to pursue that?…

Roger : Right!  You do that with an article 9

** Oh compel them to produce it or their tax returns…

Roger : Yep--yep--yep  See you use Article 9, Sec 612 or 613 that gives them notice that leads up to the sale.

** At that point you can give them notice as if you are going to be executing them?

Roger : Yep

** Well this ought to keep us busy… Enjoy your dinner… Thanks a bunch