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Credo Mutwa Reptilians


Conversation with Roger Elvick on
March 9, 2002 
 Male = *  and   female = **

** Hi it’s B* and R*.  We got this copy of the habeas corpus and wanted to run some things past you if you have a minute.

R: Oh hi… okay, what habeas is it?

** The 2254, the state.

R: Okay… yeah…yeah…yeah

*: Hi,… I had a question on filling out this form on how much I should be filling out of putting your name, prison number and location.  So that is how I’m treating what I’m buying.  Like from the store.  Then it says below it full name of petitioner and full of respondent and then it goes it to put in places of venue of conviction date, the penal code, then it lists all the things of the court case.  And it asks to check the boxes and to explain what happened, what grounds were raised, you know all the stuff that happens at court.  I’m not sure if that is something I want to get involved in if I’m going to treat it like I’m going to the court store and buy a habeas corpus.

R: Well then probably what you can do is just write a “none of your business”.

*: Chuckles… okay!

R: Well basically that’s what it is.  It’s none of their business except the conduct of what they did.  In other words they don’t get any personal information on you.  Don’t give them any.

*: Okay

R: Except name, rank and serial number.   And see all the other stuff is just the facts surrounding how they took the body and of course see you’re identifying the body, which is name, rank and serial number.   See the name and the rank would actually be the description of the body which is really a military description.  But the reason it’s military is because it is the core of engineers that sets all those zoning requirements.  Where everybody lives…  But you see the 2254 and the 2255 are the commercial writs that address these things.  That’s why they’ve got a form in there that lays in the evidence that’s needed to prosecute it.

** Now is there is only one?  No public or private difference?

R: No.  What determines what’s public or private is what kind of information you give them.  Private information about your person is none of their business.

** Oh… okay!  So when they are asking name, date and serial number, we don’t give it to them or we do?

R: They have to have certain amount of information to be able to prosecute it.  You have to identify the prisoner.

** So would it be information basically that would describe him like on a drivers license?

R: Yeah.

** So you don’t really discuss the case, like on the first page it has here:  Please complete the following:  This petition concerns 1) a conviction, 2) a sentence 3) jail or prison 4) …

R: Well sure you’re going to tell them what it concerns.  It concerns what?… a jailing… ?

** Well it’s a sentence, but we were wondering if it should be marked 2) a sentence or if we should mark 4) other?

R: Yeah if he was sentenced mark a sentence.

** Okay.  Good.  Then where it says where he was sentenced just go ahead and fill all that in so they know where he is.

R: Yeah

*: Well where we’re curious is what type of information we should get into about they have questions about where is the venue, the petition upon which the conviction is based and the nature of the offenses, the case number, the date of the conviction.

R: Yeah, well see the nature of the offense is commercial.

** Oh, commercial crime or just commercial?

R: Well just commercial or well they can call it a crime if they want to.

*: I don’t know if it’s appropriate for me to get into it or not but it says check the appropriate box on plea it say’s 1) guilty, 2) not guilty, 3) nolo contendere.  It doesn’t have call witnesses or remain to yourself and a ….

R: Well just write in there no plea was made.

*: Okay.  So when it goes down this thing it says “Findings of the court…. It looks like it really gets into the description of their subject matter…

R: Oh it does?  …

*: That’s what it appears like.

R: The thing is when you are doing it on paper it’s not like you are making oral testimony.  Cause there has to be a third party or somebody who reads it when it comes into evidence and that’s the damn judge.   You know, he’s the eye witness.

*: Okay

R: See the fact of the matter is, is the offender did as a matter of fact, did accept and return the offer being a commercial offer assuming the character of equity.  When in fact they were not eligible to assume the equity.  That’s the bases you use to find your way to tell what happened in there.  More importantly the reason that I’m saying that you have a better chance with this now then anybody that’s used them before is because you’re going to use your closed check to go into the closed circuit.   That’s going to be a circuit court item.  That’s why even appeals don’t work anymore because they’re based on debt.  They can’t get into the closed circuit.  Because there is only one side of the issue and you have to have somebody there that can get into the closed circuit that can zero out the debt.   That’s really what it’s all about.  So you see when you file that thing… is there still a $5.00 filing fee on it?

*: Yeah

R: Okay well then this form just goes with your check.  Because whoever files that they are going to have to take the filing and charge the check.

** There is somewhere in there though that says they won’t take a personal check.

R: Well you simply give them the check and then you simple state here that the operator of the account is instructed to order whatever type of payment is required.   My personal check accompanying this form gives that authorization.

*: Okay.

** Now I was going to ask you something else… this is a little off subject but when people are paying property taxes they are just ignoring them like they didn’t receive anything or if they mark it paid when the check doesn’t clear they reverse it.

R: Well that’s okay.  That’s still the admission.  That’s saying that it’s not paid it is zero now.

** Oh good.

R: Now they can’t lay claim to the property with a debt instrument.  Because if they try it the positive claim is in there and it has to be brought into the account and when it goes into the account it goes to zero.   See they’ve been maintaining their positions on the property with debt instruments.

** Right okay

R: And not only that.  I’m not so sure we have to use the check to get into that position.

** What would we use?

R: You just go in there and ask to be put on the mailing list.  See I know somebody that did that and of course the lady that was trying to help him, the filing officer was stating, “ Well I can’t put you on the mailing list until we have corrected the name and address on the account.”   What she was saying, is we’ll put you on the mailing list if you’ll correct the address on the account.  So that’s the same thing with all the mail you’re getting with all these mail order offers… most of this mail that comes it always says “Address correction requested”.

** Right… okay

R: That’s what we need to do because you see they’ve got you on an account that some administrator has put you on.  But that’s not making a personal claim.   I think that all the stuff we get from now on we should be putting that on.  We become the owners of the account right there.

*: Check it and do a change of address on it?

R: Yes because when you get your tax bills back they have a place on the back to do that.  Everybody needs to do it and that might in effect do it by giving you the bill.  That might be enough right there to close the account.

** Just write on there “Address correction”?

R: Yes.  Then you just put your name and address how you want it on there.  I have an idea that may be enough.  Because then once we told them to do that and they do it, then all you’re going to do is be put on the mailing list for the bill.

** Right

R: Or maybe on the account but I don’t know what they plan to do.  I know here that there are things in progress on mine so I’m not crowding them.   I’m giving them the time to let them do this.
I know that when I went after and done this thing on Wal-Mart I find out here that there isn’t anybody else on it.

** As a person or as a company?

R: Well they have the thing listed as a Wal-Mart account but apparently the tax bill is not sent to anybody.  It might have to be a real person.  Because I think Wal-Mart is probably in such a foreign jurisdiction that they haven’t got anybody on it at all.   I could tell the way the filing officer was acting and there were some things that she said, I can’t really tell you now why I felt that way but as I started to think about everything that had gone on in there that when I got out of there I began to realize that there isn’t anybody else on the account.  So when they send me the bill, I don’t know maybe they are going to send me the bill and say that it is paid.  I might just have to accept that and say, “yeah the accounting is correct.”   If that is right and my name is on there, then now I’m the owner of that. Period.    See it might be a lot simpler than we think.

** Interesting!   Cause the other thing is municipalities don’t pay taxes.   R* have you ever studies the CAFR report and does it say they budget for taxes or indicate taxes in there?

*: Just what I’ve done recently.  It reports how much taxes, like if you do a property profile.  It does a report they have to pay of taxes for that year but it marks them “Exempt”.

R: Okay, so you know what’s happening?… You see the municipality assumes that the state has taken up the levies which is where your personal property is at.  They assume that.  Then the city and/or county they just simply credit there accounts and write checks on it.   The state might not actually do anything it’s just they do it in the name of the state.   That’s where our personal property rights are at.   And see if you’re in there asking for this information and they say it’s exempt or there is no charge, then you request the certificate of origin to identify the principal on who they rely on for that particular piece of property.  You see at the same time you can tell them you want a change of address and then that’s where you put your name on it.

** Cause I’m thinking like the jail that is holding R* it is not going to show any taxes because it is a municipality holding.

R: Right!  Right!  That’s how you handle it see.  Because once you ask them for that, they no longer have the equity.  See they are holding him there under equitable means.   They’ve got a problem then and I think that’s where we’re going to have to go to get some of these people out of these situations.

** Good that ties it together.   I was talking to J* and she was saying because of her legal background she would do the law suit to bring some of these public officials accountable and to do there job if you would give her some guidelines and help her structure it.

R: Well I’m not sure we need to do that yet.  But I am thinking as long as you’ve got this 2254 whatever you’re going to use, just draft that thing out and then accompany it with your closed check and run it on them.

** This should actually work too for the people in jail to be able to help themselves out.

R: Oh yeah.  See the problem has been when people appeal their cases even when they’ve got appealable issues.  They can’t get the circuit courts to act on them.  Why? … because they aren’t getting into the closed circuit.   Now that we are kind of through with this.  I’m going to tell you where you can go study this in more detail.  Recently I’ve come into contact here with some people who have a corporation.   I don’t think that they are into things where they are going to say “well they are going to buy the properties that we’ve got”.  I think I can make a deal with them on a couple of mine, but it is for totally different reasons that I don’t want anybody thinking they are going to do it for anybody else.   I just happen to have a unique deal going and we have some mutual interest going in some property.   The interesting thing is… I’m making a deal with the corporation and I’ll get more into that with you later….  I’m going to check it out to see whether or not I’m going to participate or not.  It is a bank debenture and the information on it.  You start to study the information on it you’ll start to see the inner workings of the corporation.

** I have some information from the International Chamber of commerce for off-shore debentures.

R: Okay.  Then just go through it in detail because sometimes it talks about …say like a particular account is outstanding.  That particular account is outstanding.  Well that particular outstanding account isn’t anything that be affecting you because it’s showing that you the holder of the debenture are inside.  Where outstanding is outside.

** I see!  Cause that trading program that I told you about where 19 people were arrested and my friend was the fall guy.   Apparently this was a scam, but the government finds out about these programs and seize the funds in the accounts.    I know of a bunch of these programs and every one of them have gone sour.  Is this something that you have to put up funds?

R: Well the thing is… see where they’re going wrong is they are putting up debt instruments.  They have not been able to get into the closed circuit.

** Oh… gotcha!  Duh

R: See when the snoops come around and ask you how much income do you have?  … and you got business with these, I just tell them, “That’s none of your business!”

** Oopps I had my public hat on!

R: I’m private at that point but you see if you’re using debt instruments and you try that business you aren’t going to get by with it because you have already given them evidence that you’re public and now the minute you start to refuse then they are just going to railroad you.

** Okay because usually the only thing they usually will accept is cash.

R: Yeah… See I can overcome that.   Because I just tell them order the cash you want.  My check authorizes you to order any kind of payment you want.  If the corporation can write a check they can write it for cash and offset it here with my check.

** Interesting.

R: You want to be really careful about letting this out here where you let this out to people that you don’t know who is reading it because some people don’t know how to read between the lines that we have to.  That’s what I’m saying.  When that states attorney issued those warrants for me when I started reading about this debenture it described exactly what he’s doing.  And what he’s doing is he is going into court Monday and he is going close this account.  That’s what he’s going in there for.  This account has been open for years.  The check that he’s talking about… he’s accusing me of writing a check on a non-existent account, well that’s not so.  The only non-existent account that’s been written on is what he’s written on.   He’s an operator on my account so he’s issuing a check.  He’s going in to close the escrow.

** So when he issues the check your talking of the warrant?

R: Yeah!   And so then when I began to study the debenture I could see what and how he’s doing it.   See because the debenture is talking about things that are outstanding.  He’s telling me that the warrant is still outstanding… well hell I know those warrants are only good for 10 days cause they’re misdemeanors for one thing.  See a misdemeanor, a class A misdemeanor is a class A security which means it’s the cashier of the bank.  The class B misdemeanor is coming from a trust company.  The class C misdemeanor is probably the investigator who’s holding the medium of exchange so that he can charge the cashier with it.  Because when the B section can’t communicate directly with the A section cause the trust officer in the B section is a fiction.  If it happens to be me I can go treasury direct.    But you see the fiction can’t so they go through another medium of exchange.

** This is so good.  Where did you obtain the information about debentures?  What I have is I think about 36 pages.

R: The corporation sent me the copy of the debenture.

** Okay then the information I have is probably the same or close.

R: Probably.  Mine is just 4 or 5 but it’s just what pertains to the debenture I’m going to consider.  But you see I’ve got an offer that I can hold them to it.  It’s just called an Arizona corporation.  I may have to make a trip to Canada.

** How long and how soon are you going to go and be gone?

R: Oh the way it looks it might be the middle of next week.  I’m hoping that these guys will be interested in some of this property.  I think they are involved in enough financial transactions and I don’t want to go away from something that successful at right now.  But you see the interest that I have is the method to get the corporation up and running and we can do that ourselves.   That’s where we started out before.

** Right!

R: But when I run into these guys I thought, well maybe I can learn something from these guys if they are already up and running and doing some of the things that I want to do.   It’s something I can’t do with everything that I’m already doing.

** What about a corporation sole?

R: Well I don’t know.  I know what you’re talking about of sole proprietor as opposed to a full fledged corporation.  See and I’m not sure that I need to examine this with some of these guys that are in to this.   See these guys are going to pay me 1% per month on this debenture.  You see this is not based on promissory notes.  You know there are some specifics in there that states that promissory notes can’t be used for payment.

** 1% per month?… that sounds low for a debenture.  Usually debentures from what I know about them they usually pay about 5 to 10% per month.

R: Oh it couldn’t be a month.  Man oh man oh man…

** Usually that’s what it is but it usually is for large sums of funds.  They usually tell you that it will double or triple in a year.

R: Well then I don’t know whether I would want to … I think there would be a real problem with that.  See 12% is fine.  You see because the corporation with this type of debenture then you see with this type of debenture where ever they are doing things with this type of money and they make money, then you see they pay additional dividends on that.

** Okay so it’s like a guarantee of 1% a month and then bonuses.

R: Yeah they’ll pay out dividends and it spelled out very clear right here.  Whenever its tax recording time whatever is over and above the red line on the tax form they pay that out in dividends.

** Cause their were some guys and they were in one of these trades and they would get their funds from off-shore monthly and this went on for several years and then one day good ole Uncle Sam seized it and the guy that was operating the trust was brought to the United States for trial of tax evasion or whatever they are going after him for.

R: Yeah well here’s the thing.  Well because we’re off shore in fact means we’re off shore.  Well no it doesn’t mean that at all.  They haven’t broken the jurisdiction yet.  They’re still dealing in international debt.  They can’t escape it with an off shore and this one I’m dealing with is not off shore.   It is a full fledged corporation.  Those off shore corporations are basically sole proprietorship.

** Interesting… okay because when they refer to off shore they are trying to imply out of U.S. jurisdiction Statutes and laws.

R: Oh yeah

*: Is that when in fact they are not because they are subscribing to the same monetary system?

R: Yeah.  It’s all debt and ties them all together.   They haven’t broken that chain.  They’re not off shore.

*: Oh okay!  They haven’t divided themselves from the public?

R: Right!  That’s what our closed account does.  We had the bank do that.  They close the doors and its inside now.   It’s a closed circuit.

** Very interesting.  Just like when you told me last time how that puts us on the inside and them on the outside when we do this.  Reversing the roll.

R: Hmhum!  Well we were all outside.  They just assumed they’re inside.  But once we go in in-fact then they’re finished and maybe it’s enough to do it to just go in and request the address change on the property.    That might be enough to do it.

*: And then we re-write the same address on the bill? Or…

R: What do you mean re-write…?

*: Like exempt property for the city or county.  When they send us the tax bill just re-write our address on the tax bill even if it has it…

R: Well if they actually send you a bill, then send them a check for the taxes from your account and then put change of address on it.  You betcha!

** Good…

R: But you see walking in there,  that might happen or occur right there.

*: Oh just being there in present?

R: Well yeah.  Because that’s what this lady was asking this guy about.  She said I can’t send you the bill until the name and address change is on the account.  Then I can give it to you.  So he stood there and she did it right there.

*: Oh okay.

** In other words with K* going down to there paying for it with a supplemental tax bill he should of told her right there he wanted an address change on the property?

R: Right!

** Oh he may have to go in again and do that.

R: He could send them a note and instruct them to do that.

** Same with the other guy taking possession of the apt bldg in Hollywood.

R: Just tell them this is the change of name and address on that particular parcel.  He might even want to dramatize it with a green card.

** From the post office?

R: Right

** Now what about people that get their property tax bill mailed to them should they also be sending in a change of address or ownership when they are paying from their closed account?

R: They should also give them the change of address.

** But there wouldn’t be a change of address.  They are the same except they are paying with their closed accounts.

R: Well yes there will.  Your name has been put on there as the name of a strawman.  You haven’t done it your self.

** Oh so you need to change your name upper and lower?

R: Well it’s not upper/lower here.  It could be both uppers.  One is mirror image of the other.  I don’t get in to that upper lower… very little as I possibly can.  They have a way of inverting that too.   It’s just a matter that if your name appears as you think it should I would still do it even if it looks identical to the way it was.  At least it looks identical, but you see it’s not because somebody else did it now this time now you yourself did it.  That’s the difference.

*: Because we did it direct?

R: Yeah.  See that actually charges the cashier.  So you might not even have to use the check.

** Yeah because what’s happening is these people that are going into foreclosure and they have paid the mortgage as well as the property tax and the banks are still acting on it.  I don’t know the tax bill is going to be due April 10th so they are not going to know until they get it into an escrow to see that they’ve been paid.

R: Not only that, just like this attorney.  It took 3 or 4 days of him rumbling around there cause I hit him twice with a couple of actions and then there is a 10 day spread until he has to go into the court and close it.   That’s what he is doing.  Because he has written a check cause he is talking about issuing a warrant for me based on a certain statute or code and that for the reason being that the check was written without an account.  Well what he has done is he has described what he did.  He didn’t say a damn word about the 9 checks that I gave the county treasurer.  Didn’t say one word about them.  Then when I sent these off to him the first time, I sent him 2 checks to pay the fines on the two complaints that he had made.

** Right…

R: But you see he was referring to checks that he had written.  He’s the one that didn’t have the account.  (chuckles)  It was the county treasurer that had the account and she brought it to him.

** Oh that is too funny!

R: Yeah and I began realizing this when I was reading over the ins and outs of the debenture.

*: Isn’t that like Glas-Steagall where they can’t go directly but when they tell you something, it’s actually the conduct they are doing?

R: Yeah… yeah!  Because he’s operating my account.  He’s saying he is issuing a warrant and accusing me of writing a draft without an account.  Well see the draft he wrote is the letter he wrote to me, for one thing.  He probably didn’t do anything else except that so that was the contract.

** So is he summonsing you into court?

R: No he said I could choose to come in or not come.  Those are class A misdemeanors.  And I happen to know that those types of warrants are only good for 10 days.  So same thing as Internal Revenue ten day letter.

** Oh I didn’t know about IRS 10 day letter.

R: Well that’s what they use.  The same method.  That’s because it’s not a bench warrant for one thing.  It’s a warrant issued by him and that means it has to be a check.

*: A personal check?

R: Yeah or a draft.  And the draft is the letter he gave me.

** Oh we had another success story of a guy with an IRS levy of $88,000 and the employer was taking half his pay check so he wrote the IRS a draft using his closed account number and he received a release of levy so now he will be getting his whole pay check.

R: Good! Good! Good!  This should start revealing a lot more.  It will be interesting to see what
will happen on Monday because that’s the day he has to act on it.  (This is Tues. and nothing happened)

*: Is that the 10th day of the instrument or …

R: Yep, I’m certain that it is.  One of these letters he wrote to me on the 27th of Feb.  The other one he wrote was later than that, but the first one he was just stating that he was going to do something.  See he is talking about in the future tense.  Then he writes again cause I smacked him again with a long letter to the county treasurer telling her that I wanted the parcel numbers on his property… (laughter) I’m sure that sort of encouraged him to hurry up and write to me.

** To growl at you cause he was trying to be friendly.

R: Well he knows I’ll follow through.  There is no doubt in there minds and of course I told her… Well see I had made the 9 checks out to the artificial title.

*: The corporation County Treasurer?

R: Yeah!  So then I summed it up and I gave her a check the sum total of all of them payable and It told her and payable to you and the sum total of the nine checks above to relieve you of your disabilities and the artificial title of your office and make you personally accountable for the tax return of this account.

*: And you wrote that to her personal name?

R: Oh yes.  And the thing is she didn’t make a return to me.   She says you know when I’m there, “I can’t give you a receipt”.  I said, “I don’t need one.”  I didn’t tell them I’m expecting a return… and that’s a tax return.

*: Okay so she’s going indirect to make that return?

R: Yeah… yeah  She’s going to return it through the state’s attorney.

*: Oh, okay.

R: See at the first time the first checks that I gave her I had not returned the bills to her cause I had no way of keeping my copies of them.  And I wasn’t going to give those up unless I had copies.  I could of probably asked them and they would of probably made copies for me.  But I’d already been there 2-1/2 hours and everybody was getting weary and I kind of wanted to leave because we had a lot of accounting to do yet.  I didn’t do that until I had a good nights sleep and did it the next day.

** Oh so it was a two day project.

R: Yeah I had 11 pages of properties that she gave me.

*: All with regards to your farm they took years ago?

R: Yeah!  See anyone that touched my farm she gave me the property they had under their name.

** That is really good.  I was thinking of going and paying the taxes on my house that was foreclosed but I didn’t want to harm the innocent people in there so I was going to find the attorney that took it or ultimately responsible for getting me thrown out.

R: Well the new buyers they go after the title company that guaranteed title.

** Yeah that’s true, but I think it’s on the 2nd or 3rd owner now.   But you’re right whoever owns it now can still go after the title company.

R: Those people that are on it now can still go after the title company.  If they want to deal in debt money then they are going to have to make sure they have a clean title.   I remember years ago when my dad drove half way across this country in the winter time and he paid a guy $500 for a small 13 acre quite claim deed because he didn’t have the titles all locked up.  And $500 bucks back in 1948 was a lot of money just for a little 13 acre piece of land that you couldn’t even farm but he wanted to clean up the titles on the property and that’s the extent they would go.  See these title companies they just say they’ll guarantee it.  Well now they are going to have to pay up on the guarantee.  These people are going to have to go to them and tell them… “Well you damaged me, you sold a house that you didn’t have the right to sell it.”

** Oh ya, you pay big bucks for title insurance.  That is some kind of racket.

R: See that’s what I’m sure he has to do.  That’s why he said he had issued two complaints.  But see that is the criminal side of how they are explaining they wrote two warrants on my name… So he is operating my account.

** He is suppose to be your fiduciary?

R: Oh yeah and he’s doing his job.

** This is going to be fun!  So you’re going to have this before you go on your other venture the middle of the week?

R: I don’t know if I will or not.

** Isn’t Monday the cut off day?

R: Well that’s if he acts on it.

** According to your calculation?

R: No… he stated it right in his letter.

*: On the habeas corpus… it says… There is a statement on here it says… State concisely every ground on which you claim that you are being held unlawfully.  Summarize briefly the facts supporting each ground.  If necessary attach a single page only behind page.  So it’s giving me an option to let them know what my position was so that’s where I was going to draft up a paragraph describing what my remedy was or that it’s all accepted and describe my remedy and just take it on that I have a claim on this remedy, which is the delivery of my body at the discharge of the jail.  That is only thing that I’m pushing for cause that’s the only thing that really matters is that I haven’t been delivered yet.

R: Right… right!  See the fiduciary is in breach of the agreement because you are prosecuting the alternative which is involuntary delivery.  Being involuntary bankruptcy.  It’s still an agreement and they are obligated to deliver in exchange.

** Okay.

*: The toughest part I’m having with regards to this form is they would like me to enter into… and I’m not sure… I’m thinking if it’s writing I can go ahead and put really whatever I want as long as it doesn’t come out of my mouth.

R: Yeah! Because somebody else is going to have to read it and then it becomes indirect evidence.

*: What is direct evidence?

R: You’re testifying!

*: Oh… it comes out of your own mouth!

R: See somebody else is going to look at it and then read it and say this is what it says.  Now it’s eligible!

*: Oh now it can be used in evidence.

R: In a public court, but you see privately we can deal directly.  But publicly it has to be indirectly because that’s why the Miranda warning is there.

*: Okay because privately there is no liability on us so it’s okay to do that.

R: Right because you see the public is operating in bankruptcy.  They have to go to the private side to get money.

*: Okay they have to come to us as the source?

R: Yeah.

*: Okay that really helps clean up a lot of the questions.  I’m looking at this form and I’m going goodness there is a lot of testimony in here.  Really entering into their system.

R: Well you’re not testifying.  You see if you get into their court and they ask you, “What’s this all about?”  You tell them, “Well have you got the writ in front of you?  Then tell the court what it says.”   Then he becomes the eye-witness not you.  That goes for the judge, prosecutor or anybody.

*: Good okay!  That helps clear up how to handle it.

** Oh that really does clear it up.  We’re always worried we’re going to say to much or reveal to much and that would take us out of our privacy.

*: Not saying stuff orally but getting stuff into the written argument.

R: Well it’s the way you write it to, they are going to tell whether you’re pre-disposed to want to tell things that you shouldn’t be.  They’ll just prod you until you open your trap.

*: You mean if I write to explanatory?

R: Right.  Just get right to the point.  You see this being a commercial exchange or commercial matter.  I think we talked about that… where you could use the word… what is it?  It’s a commercial…

*: Commercial proceeding…

R: There are no pleas and the offender has accepted the charges in the same to whoever the responsible person is.   Well and has returned them to whoever you’re suing on there whoever you’re going against would that be the warden?

*: Yeah it’ll be the sheriff.  The County Sheriff.

R: It’s been returned to him through the … I don’t know who all you have involved…

*: Okay what we’ve done is we wrote a draft payable to the Orange County sheriffs dept. and then the sheriffs dept assigned it over to the prosecutor.  So we’ve been doing all our stuff through the prosecutor.

R: Okay so what you’re going to do is you’re going to say that the prosecutor having a commercial obligation to release the property in exchange.  Just be real liberal with that word in EXCHANGE.   And he is requested to close this account and deliver the product.   And I would say… The product of the adjustment.   You see he needs to adjust the account first and then deliver the product of that adjustment.   See in closing he is to adjust the account and after the adjust he is to deliver the product in exchange.

** That addresses the accrual?

R: Yeah.. The same being an accrual in intermediate accounting.

*: All right.  So just keep it in focus of that.  Here is what I’m pretty sure is going to happen.  I’m going to give it to the court.  I’m going to write that check for $5.00.  The court is going to kick it back saying, “We can’t take your check.”  Then I’m going to take that and just send it over to …. U.S. Marshal’s serve that on the warden.

R: Okay there is another way to do it too.  You could certify a process server by affidavit to serve this court and that would actually be the equivalent of you providing your own court marshal.  And if you’re doing a 2254 that’s state so you could probably use the civil procedure of California.  If you’ve got a California Civil Code, at least if I remember it, it’s got all the forms in there.

** For Process Server … they do I had the Sheriffs serve mine and they even had to serve them on other sheriffs and they can’t make a determination.  They have to do what you pay for.

*: Well if I give it to the sheriffs to serve it, I just served it.

** Yeah but you have to have the proof of service.

R: Still there is a deputy that actually has to serve it on them.

*: Oh okay.  So I don’t necessarily have to have the U.S. Marshal I can use whoever will serve it.

R: Well you should make a regular appoint of the person to serve that person as a registered process server.  Enclose a copy of that inside it.

*: Well what I’m doing is I’m going to walk inside and file this at the U.S. Window and I’m going to give them my personal check and they are going to reject it right there.

R: Okay well what you do is you say okay, take your check back and then turn around, then turn around and tell them okay now I’m requesting that you file this without cost.

*: Then you keep the check?

R: Yeah

** Oh that’s a demand filing.

R: What you’ve done is you’ve given them a tax return and that is contraband.  Now they have an obligation to you now to deliver without cost.

*: Okay and wait for them to stamp it and get my copy.

R: Sure they have to carry out their duties now, just as if you’d paid for it.  Tell them I want my copy stamped please.

** and what they do is then the judge takes it and then denies it.

R: Well if the judge denies it then he gets the same treatment because he’s subject to review in bankruptcy.   I’m not so sure he’s going to try that if you get it filed that way.  He is going to know that.  By the time it comes in there he realizes that he pokes his nose on a denial on that you see he might trigger something that he might not want.  I think that if you get it done that way, you’ll get it done.

*: Okay

** Great, it can’t hurt to try it.

R: Well you’ve got those options to work with and see how you do with them.  If nothing else we’re going to learn a lot.   We’re looking now for the things we don’t know.   What we think we can overcome them with the things that we know right now.

** Oh we’re learning a lot.

R: They’re now going to have to come up with some methods to stop it that we don’t know.  That’s how we learn.

** Oh you’re supper!  Thank you… thank you!

* Yes!  Thank you very much…. This helps a lot.