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Credo Mutwa Reptilians


April 2, 2002 - Transcript of
conversation with Roger Elvick
** Oh Hi, here I am twice in one week!  Got two other totally different situations and I was wondering if what you told me last time could work for these to.

R: Okay what have you got.

** One of them is about a corporation for a convalescent home and the IRS is hot on their trail.  This has been going on since 1995.  I wasn’t sure they could pay this with their closed account, being a corporation and all.

R: It is a corporation?

** Yes it is a corporation that they got before they knew all of this information we are learning now. Now they are from another country so they probably get involved in trying to understand the way things should be set up and get entrapped.

R: You know I was in prison with these type of guys that owned these type of homes and got locked up for their financial activities.  The closed check probably would work but what I see happening out here, we’ve been fairly successful overall with the offer and acceptance so now they are resorting to the criminal charges to press their game.  In other words we could push them to the point where they would voluntarily settle the account…. Offer, acceptance and return.  But now when they come in and they refuse settlement, you see they lay in the background with criminal charges that they either intend to bring or they may even start circulating these things in the background to where they are expecting to bring criminal charges.  They may even start them in the hands of investigators and informants.

** Oh see that is what I think too.  I think someone is collecting all these checks and some of these merchants aren’t even acknowledging us then one day when they feel the timing is right they will start the fears and intimidation tactics, etc.  They come after you three or five years after the events.

R: Well whenever they do, you see, I think that we can pre-empt some of this by requesting an appearance bond on our own 
PR (personal recognizance) to plead to the charges.

** In other words just bring it to a head now?

R: Right.  Oh yeah!  And when they refuse or otherwise fail to provide the PR bond they don’t have a charge.

** Perfect!  Cause I wondered if this would work on things where there isn’t a case opened yet.  Right now there are people that were using acceptance for value or drafts or checks and the companies are still taking them to court.  This is perfect for them.  So they can just order an appearance on that even if it’s civil?

R: Oh yes right away.  You betcha!  Just ask for a conference with the judge and request a PR bond and a time to appear.  You also want to state the reason you want to appear and that reason is to discharge the bond and close the account.  That’s the purpose.

** Okay.  So that will solve that.  I think we have a good understanding of that.  You are so brilliant on how you pulled this all together and set it up to accomplish this.  I know you kept telling us that we have to be charged, but this is going to be so much easier than trying not to speak.

R: See for me I could have done this without the arrest.  See if I would have appeared when he set up the time and place the first time.

** Okay.

R: But when I didn’t do it, his 10 days ran out and he then got a bench warrant and that of course for the arrest it went one week later.  It was on a Monday.  Seems like they always choose a Monday in the A.M. to do it.

** Oh I was thinking they always do it on the weekend to make you set in jail over the weekend.  Like foreclosures are usually on Friday when they evict you out of your property.

R: Oh yeah! Yeah!  They got me on Saturday night.

** Exactly….

R: But I’m sure it was issued out before Friday with the warrant.

** They just couldn’t find you…

R: Well no they could find me, but I was right in the middle of so many people they would have had such a disruption they would have had an awful time serving the warrant.   They weren’t of a mind to get rough.

** Sometimes they like to push their muscle around but if you’re really nice and gentle (gentile) it makes it hard for them to be jerks.  I encourage people not to battle or get controversial, just be as nice as possible.

R: Yeah.  … I just took the paper and looked it over and I said, “Okay I’ve accepted these and now I’m returning them to you.” And that was it.   The only thing I had to tell the judge is, “I accepted and returned and now I want closure.”   Well she told me, “I understand what you want.”  But she said,  “You’ll have to come before me before we can finish it.”   Well I understood that!

** That’s interesting that you had to go in there to cast the shadow, right?

R: Right.

** That’s great.  Really good!  Now I have another guy that’s got to go to court tomorrow.  He’s got an insurance agency and what he did was he sold a policy to this single gal and told her that it did not cover pregnancy unless there were complications.  Well she ended up getting pregnant and when she found out it didn’t cover normal pregnancy four months into her pregnancy she cancelled the policy but then ended up having to have a caesarian, which now her policy would have covered it.  Anyway the long and short of it is she took him to small claims court for $3 grand and the judge being confused ended up awarding her $800.   Sort of creating a compromise.  She should have sued the Insurance Company but she sued him.  I would think the insurance company would pay as a nuisance claim just to keep good will.  The Insurance Agent now spent $1,200 to overturn this charge or ruling.  I don’t know what the $1,200 is for unless it is for an attorney.  The agents concern is that the insurance commissioner will pull his license.  That seems a little harsh for a small claims claim against you personally.

R: Well they can’t bring their license to bear in small claims.  She went against his person.

** Okay cause he wanted to know if he could accept it for value.

R: Yeah!  Humm…. Hummm… humm.

** He said his wife has a sever illness so this is important plus he has some other insurance that may be in jeopardy.

R: Hummm! Hummm! Hummm!

** Now R* suggested he tell his insurance company to pay it.  I agree with that because in my opinion this is truly a very small matter and I would think they would do it for good will.  The woman should have been suing the insurance company.  His insurance company should be standing behind him instead of threatening him because if she would of sued the insurance company it would of cost the insurance company much more in legal fees.  They are also the ones that licensed him.

R: If she tries to press the judgment through any attorney I think he could request a personal appearance bond at whatever enforcement proceedings that are being pressed against him to enable him to plea.  In other words he could probably bring it to criminal himself… that way.

** In other words he should wait until some action comes at him?

R: Well I think he could request a bond now.  I think he could go…. Is she using an attorney?

** No I don’t think you can use attorneys in small claims.  I think he has got an attorney.

R: He could advise her that since she’s pressing the small claims personally against him, instead of the Insurance company, for the action and already has, maybe he could call the judge and request an appearance bond to go before that judge, to enable him to plead and discharge the bond.

** See he’s suppose to be going in tomorrow.  These people call you just before the fire breaks out and don’t allow any time to set up for a remedy.   He probably has the case opened with an attorney so is that going to mess it up for him to …

R: Well either that or tell the attorney to get the judge on the phone and then ask for the bond.  Then you see once he would discharge the bond then his attorney would be authorized to pay the damages.

** Okay.  Out of the surplus bond right?

R: Because when he’s got an appearance bond then he can plead to the case.  He can plead guilty to it.  Now they have all the facts in there, the judge can discharge the bond and I think in discharging the bond that means now that the attorney that is representing her could just write her a check for the damages.

** But she doesn’t have an attorney representing her so it would have to come out of the court.

R: Okay so then it would be the judge.  I think that he would call the judge and make that proposal to the judge that he request an appearance bond on his own personal recognizance and that he does not plan to dispute any of the facts in the case.  And you see because they have this judgment that he is obligated to pay and coming out of that court I suppose he could call that judge.

** You mean the one from small claims?

R: Yeah… and just request…

** Well I wonder if you do get an appearance bond in small claims court….

R: Well… They’d have to.  They order you to appear, otherwise they’d have to set the matter before a district judge.

** I don’t know if you can appeal a judgment in small claims or if you have to do that at the next higher court…. Well I took this guy to small claims once and I got the judgment and I couldn’t go attach his wages for 30 days in case he wanted to contest the ruling.  He might have to do a little of his own homework on this.

R: He needs to go to the court clerk or judge and request a bond for …

** For an appearance bond, cause she originally asked for $3,000 but was awarded $800.  I wonder if they are going to say it’s too late.

R: It doesn’t make any difference.  No because it’s an unresolved deal and it can eventually get down to being a criminal charge for failure to appear or something.

** Failure to pay!

R: Well that’s failure to appear.

** Oh Okay.

R: So what he wants is the court to grant him a personal recognizant bond and set a date for appearance.

** Wonderful!  Basically you can use this appearance bond anytime you are summoned to appear or pay?

R: I think so.  What you do is you set a time and a date to plead to the charge.  And you see plead to the charge for discharge of the bond and closure….. In Exchange!

** Oh right exchange!  You know I think this is going to be easier than trying to stay mute.  This feels more natural.

R: Oh I think so.  What we were doing, you see they never wanted to admit that they were bringing charges so they were just wanting to make claims and voluntarily agree and settle but they are not settling.  So you see now they are reaching the point to where everything is going criminal.  What we’ve done is we’ve balanced one side of the account but not this one so now is the remedy on the criminal side.

** So this is closing the matter completely?

R: Yeah.

** Now what about the involuntary bankruptcy?  Are we still going to need to pursue that?

R: Well that’s exactly what we are doing.

** Ooohhhh!  Isn’t this clever!

R: See sometimes if they say they aren’t going to do it on this end and they do everything they can to cover it.  Then you see we just inform them, “If you dishonor me then the dishonor is the charging instrument for involuntary bankruptcy petition, a federal question then”.  Then you can use that to file the federal US bankruptcy, form 303.  What will happen then is the judge will come in and deny the remedy.  He’ll issue an order denying the petition or request and then he’ll issue and order to close the case.

** Wonderful.  Then it will be completed?

R: Yeah.  Then that will be the bond that if somebody is being held… incarcerated, take the bond down to the desk of the receiving discharge desk of the jail and tell them, “here’s the bond.  I want that man’s release.”

** Now that can be used to get people out of jail!?!… that’s wonderful!

R: Well I would think so.

** A good possibility!  Worth the risk of trying.

R: Reason I’m saying that is I know a guy who had the petition but he hadn’t done some of the previous work first.  On the PR bond.  But you see he had the denial and he had the closure order.  He took it to a friend of his that was a bail bondsman.  The bail bondsman said, “Oh yes!  I haven’t seen one of those in a long time.”  So whatever that meant.  I would think that closure in bankruptcy order, you see the denial is recognizing the judge actually doing the dishonor and then ordering the closure.   See because when the order closure on it I suppose the denial is the recognition of the discharge of the bond.

** Okay.  Those judges know.  They aren’t going to let it go this far do you think unless they are real stupid.

R: Yeah, ya.  I don’t think that we’ll have to go that route.  I think that the district judges can rule.   See that’s a tax district.  So that’s why the district judge is the one.  But I see that some of these administrative proceedings will fill that duty.

** So you could almost try it with any of the courts, even with that small claims court, cause it is still in a district?

R: Yeah.  I think so.  I think the important thing for you to do is when you request the appearance bond to settle the dispute that the court will then authorize the bond and appearance and you already have a record of that in the small claims court.  So you see what you’re doing now is going to discharge the bond.  You’re calling for a hearing to discharge the bond, the appearance bond for settlement in exchange.   So you request that the hearing be for that purpose to enable the defendant to plead to the charge and for the court to order discharge the bond in closing of the account.   I think that’s the words that need to go into it when you apply for the appearance.

** and that you’re not disputing any of the facts

R: Yeah!

** So now he’ll need to cancel his other court action what he already started?

R: Yeah…. Well maybe he can settle it in that court.   Maybe that particular action that he started there then what he’d have to do is he’d have to spell out that the attorney or whomever it is that the bond is charged against.  See you have to discharge against the person who laid the charges.  So that means that all the costs and one thing or another have to be paid by the attorney who’s going to handle it or by the court.

** By the court who is going to handle it like in this case without an attorney.   Now if the insurance guy has an attorney, then he’ll have to do it?

R: Right, but he would take the proceeds from the discharged bond.

** Alright!  Good!    You’re wonderful as usual and thank you! thank you!  thank you!