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Credo Mutwa Reptilians


Roger Elvick Transcripts May 2002
These are a compilation of seven short transcripts in the month of May, 2002 onto one file.  Some conversations are with Roger Elvick and some are not, but good study material.

May 13, 2002    10:46 pm    Shared

D** You know J** is going in for sentencing tomorrow and I think she is pretty well prepared.  She is going to do the basic 3 questions then go right into the appearance bond.
R*  Yes and not only that, she can request her phone call.  You see I’m pretty sure the reason we are not getting anywhere with some of that is that it has to be done over the phone.  She is going to request her 1 phone call for the due process.  She has been denied due process and she has not been provided here with an appearance bond to enable her to plead to the charge.   When she does that she is going to announce that she is not in dispute with any of the facts in the case.
D**  Well she has all that down.
R* Okay, that’s good.
D** So she should request a phone call to the judge than?
R* Well she should request a phone call to the person who is responsible to provide her with an appearance bond for her own personal recognizance.  That’s got to come over a telephone because that has to be a charge in fact and she has been up to this point refused that, and that is the refusal of due process.  I suppose she could bring that out right there and she would request that right now, immediately before anything goes any further.
D** Well then she would probably want to talk to the prosecuting attorney, wouldn’t she?  Make the phone call to him?
R** Well no she can just request that they provide her with the name and number of the person that can do that.  Because you see, here’s what happens, the people that are in jail they tell them, “You get one phone call.”  So they give you a few phone calls to your family and stuff then they say you already had your phone call--- no you haven’t!  You have not had the phone call they are referring to.  The phone call they are referring to is the one to obtain the appearance bond and that is the due process they have refused and when they have refused you that is the cause for you to be released and delivered to the discharge door, immediately!
R** But you see, she is going to have to tell them to at that point before she goes any further, when you tell them I have accepted and returned and I want closure and I am not in dispute of any of the facts in this case.   At that point they don’t have any reason to bring any other issues because that is confession and avoidance, and now they have to provide her remedy at her request and the remedy is she gets the appearance bond to enable her to plead to the charges.
R* Do they assume here that she plead to the charges or they plead for her?
D** Well yeah.
R* But she needs to request this right there.
D** Does she request that to the guards?
R* Well she can do it right in court.  She could do it to the jail guards too.  Just put in writing that she requests her phone call for due process, she also requests the phone call to the judge or other authority responsible for providing her with an appearance bond on her own personal recognizance to allow her to plead to the charge and she can put that in writing.   But she can take it right to the jailers and let them know that she is requesting her phone call, but they must provide the name and the phone number of the person that is responsible to provide her with that.  In the event that she doesn’t get this person on the phone, they are responsible to see to it that they find somebody.  They can’t just shake it off and just continue to go on because she could just refuse here to cooperate in the courtroom because I haven’t got my phone call and I have not had my due process.  I do not have a bond here to plead to the charges in this matter.   She could also let them know that if you don’t provide me with the bond, you have no charges, you’re admitting no charges.  You’ll just have to take this info and use it the best you can.

May 14, 2002

** Oh Hi, I know it is really late but I tried you earlier and your line was busy so I figured some one snuck in there ahead of me…
R: Well we didn’t get in until around 10:00 and now it’s about 11:20   (he sounded really tired) What have you got?
** Well I faxed you some stuff on involuntary bankruptcy… about 5 pages.  Did that have any good in it?
R: Well it addresses… it shows that the bankruptcy courts are only designed to bankrupt the corporations and the artificial titles.  So I think any information we get around that helps… and we see how Lyndon LaRouch got the abuse of this too.
** Yeah I thought that was interesting how they used that to take him down so I sent that along.
R: But I think the involuntary bankruptcy…. Well let me say this. - If you have a controversy that you file a UCC1 say for instance in California or wherever and they don’t use or they don’t fund if you want to fund the exchange that you are registering, then the Secretary of State for your state, see if they come back to you and they keep demanding payment.  Lets say you give them a check on your closed account and they don’t do the filing.  They keep hounding you for the money… Then the Secretary of State now is in involuntary bankrupt because you accept their dishonor and now we file the national form and put the secretary of state on there as the debtor.
** Okay that’s what I’m going to have to do because the Franchise Tax Board levied my open bank account even after I paid them with my closed check and also sent providing information to UCC division and to the Secretary of State the person.  They only got $40.09 and then of course the bank charged me $35 for their wonderful service.
R: So that is a different account and bank then your closed account?
** Yep.  Franchise Tax Board actually sent me a letter telling me they dishonored by check because the account was closed and I accepted their dishonor.
R: Yeah, yeah.  Just stick it all back in an envelope and send it back to the Secretary of State and tell him he is eligible for involuntary bankruptcy and you can take that dishonor and attach it to a national form and list the Secretary of State on there as being in dishonor.  You could then list Colin Powell as the assignee.
** The assignee to the involuntary bankruptcy?
R: Yep and charge the debtor for the fees.  So that there charge would be the charging the dishonor.  That would be the involuntary bankruptcy right there.
** Oh, okay!  And tell them to waive all the fees…
R: No you don’t even have to tell them that you just tell them to charge the debtor for the fees.
** Okay.  I know they have these forms for involuntary bankruptcy.  I’ve done that one before and I talked to J*M* plus he told me about some of his things.  He told me about his little incident.  That’s pretty funny…. His 6 day vacation.
R: Well I just talked to him tonight at his home.  They’ve got him on a bracelet.  See when that happens, that is a black box basically and what do black boxes do?
** They hold all the information….
R: That’s right they hold information and the information is about the household.  See that’s house arrest.  That is information as to who the holder in the house is.  And when there isn’t anybody else in, they assume he is holding himself under arrest.  So I told him if they don’t give you your bond to enable you to plead to any of the charges you either cut loose and violate the terms of the black box or go down and throw a brick through the window of the bank and get yourself arrested.  Because I’m pretty sure the only way we get the appearance bond is when we’re in custody.
** Criminal charges?… Well I’ll tell you what this gal had a traffic incident and she requested an appearance bond and the judge asked the prosecutor if he knew what she was talking about and the prosecutor said, “No” so the judge called a side bar and she is to go in and sign the appearance bond next week and she wasn’t in custody.  She speaks a foreign language but I think she knew the material that you have taught us pretty well also and sometimes I think that this helps because the judge doesn’t know how much she knows or understands.
R: See I got to thinking about this over some other things that have happened around here since that deal of mine.  I can remember as a kid.  I’ve always known something that stuck with me is if you ever got thrown in jail you always had one phone call.  Well you see, now all those people that have been in jail so many times they think I get my one phone call for due process.   Now I don’t know anywhere where it is written that that has ever been denied.
** Oh I’ve heard horror stories about people that don’t get a phone call course I don’t know them personally only rumors.   I do believe they try to get people to confess before they ever tell you that you are under arrest by tricking you into some kind of confession.
R: Yes!  But it doesn’t make any difference about these confessions and what they think they’ve gotten out of you.  You still have the phone call.  Even if they’ve given you time for a phone call and they try to tell you you’ve had all kinds of phone calls.  You tell them, “No I have not had my one phone call yet.”  The one phone call that they are talking about is the call to the judge for the conference for the appearance bond.  That is the Due Process…. To enable you to plea to the charge.  And you see they haven’t provided you with due process so you haven’t had your one phone call.  It doesn’t matter how many other calls you’ve made.  Also they try to play the game… “Well who you gonna call?”  You tell ‘em, “Well Buddy you give me the name of the judge that is responsible for the providing the bond in here.  You’re the one who should know that, I don’t, I want the number and name from you and I want the call to this judge so I can make the arrangements for the appearance bond.  That information Buddy, you’re obligated to give it to me.”
“Otherwise you people are in denial of due process so you had better get to see the judge and you better let them know that I am requesting due process and when you people refuse it some bodies head is going to roll.”
** Perfect.  That does make sense.  The other thing that I’ve heard that someone shared with me from Vegas is that anytime the police are called out on a domestic dispute someone is going to be arrested and go to jail… well they took the woman in and the police sort of gave her a heads up by telling her, “You are going to ask for an appearance bond right?”   She had talked to the person studying the redemption information so she did pick up on it.  I’m not sure how it all turned out.
R: Good.  That’s good we need to all know this.
** Another thing … I’m having a little workshop on Saturday and I’m getting people from all different other states and places and some of them have been studying other procedures.  I think this is good because we are starting to synchronize our thinking and I hope that is what is going on.
R: Oh yeah!  Well J* S* from ** Law supports what we do.  I don’t talk to him directly but I have friends that do.
** Yes I talk to J* also and he always tells me how you think J*S* is right on point.  I know that they are still somewhat using statutory.  They are open to learning.
R: Well this area of obtaining the bond… J* can fill in a lot of the technical steps in how it all relates.  Like for instance I had to agree with him that on this side of the account the remedy is at common law.  Now here is what he’ll tell you and I tend to agree with this and …
** What do you mean by this side?  The private side?
R: Recently I had someone who was being prosecuted and was told in a federal court by a federal judge that they had balanced the account.  The offer and acceptance and the return had effectively balanced the account with no other problems, but he said, that is only one side of the account you didn’t balance the other.
** So he actually admitted there are two sides?
R: Oh Yes!  But you hadn’t done the other side.  Well that’s the criminal side.  That’s the one that I was having to deal with recently.
** So now there is public/private, criminal/civil so now is there public/private in the criminal and public/private in civil?
R: Well yeah!  It would be.  One is by execution of law and one is simple by theft.   They can call it civil or whatever you want.  Cause see when you have an offer and you accept it and return now you see you have an agreement of the parties so there is no criminal charges yet.  Now on the other side they are going to say,  “Well you didn’t pay and you still owe and if you don’t pay we’re going to arrest.”  Then you don’t pay and they arrest you.  Now you have the other side of the account.
** Okay.  So now you don’t care… you actually would look forward to get arrested so you get closure?…
R: Yeah, right!  So you see the thing is…. Here is the way J* will explain it to you.  Offer and acceptance is basically when we are dealing with the criminal side now they are calling it confession and avoidance.  See that’s what you do when you accept and return.  That’s a confession and avoidance.  What I did when I talked to the judge it told her I accepted and returned and now I want closure.  And I said, “I do not plan to dispute any of the facts.”  So you see, there was my confession and avoidance.  I confessed and agreed with the facts.  I said, “I’m not going to dispute any of the facts.” Okay?  Well see at that point J* had been studying the basis of the common law remedy and at that point I did away with the issue of fact.  So now there is no issue of fact and now the judge is clear to execute on the law.  That’s how come I got an execution.   And an execution is common law.  But common law is the remedy.
** Okay so now things are starting to make the full circle.
R: So you see that’s the other side of the account then.  Since then the clerk of that court mailed me a copy of the judgment and along with a letter stating that if I have any other fees to please remit to the clerk of the court which would be that court that issued on that.  See that’s where the levy is at.  That’s where my levy and the bond is at.  And the bond has been discharged.  So you see if there is any other fees to pay that’s where they have to go to that levy to get the exemption.  Because that’s where the levy in fact is.
** So you don’t know what’s going to happen yet on your properties that you started out to get back?
R: Not yet.  But you see what I did, was I took some other properties that are a little more distant that are closer to me here in Minnesota.  I filed here with the Secretary of State yesterday.  I took that letter and I attached it with the filing.  So you see then I named the Secretary of State here in Minnesota as the assignee in the case.  She has specific instructions to do certain things and instructions to have property returned to me.
** Okay cause you know what I’m wondering about on these taxes if you can ask the Franchise Tax Board for an appearance bond?
R: Well I don’t think so.  You can ask them for a check and then when they don’t give you one that is a dishonor.   I have an idea to have a real dishonor you have to be in proceeding where the item gets charged.  Otherwise we’re probably not getting it into evidence.  I know we’ve gotten some in there and if we’re up against people who don’t know what they’re doing they aren’t smart enough to slip out of it.  But they are getting cagier all the time.
** I know that I’m getting a lot of calls on the credit cards again.  I asked somebody, this one guy if he had a policy that allowed a debt to pay another debt.  He said, “What does that have to do with this?”  I said, “I don’t know how to pay you.  What do you want me to pay you with?”   I asked him, “Do you take federal reserve notes?”  He said, “Madame, we just take your check.”  This poor guy probably doesn’t even know what a federal reserve note is.   I said, “I already sent you my check and I want to know who is using the exemption.”   We just sort of went round and round but they don’t know anything and can’t really do anything but harass you.
R: You know what I do when they call me.  I ask for their name and they usually give it now and they keep trying to get mine and then they’ll say, “This is a private business matter.”  Then I’ll ask, “Is it their private business or your private business?” and they’ll say, “It is their private business.”  So I’ll tell them, “Then it is none of yours.”  (Chuckling) then I just hang up on them.
** Oh that’s a good one.  I think I’ll use that one too.   Gads I didn’t mean to keep you so long so I better let you get some sleep.  You sound so tired and you’ve been so giving.  Get some rest and I’ll catch you again at a better time.

Call ended

May 15, 2002, 4:18 pm       Bond Conversation re someone in custody

D* If it’s a way to get her out of this mess.
JE Well she can request the appearance bond for the appeal.
D* Okay then they have to come up with the bond and then she can plead guilty to whatever.
JE Yeah!
D* And then they throw her out hopefully.
JE Yeah!  Just mention to her if you talk to her to use the same process with the appeal.
D* Okay now do they send you information on the appeal automatically?
JE Her attorney should get that information to her.
D* So she takes that info to the people that are holding her and request her phone call?
JE Well she can do that right now.
D* Oh so she doesn’t need any paperwork to go with it?
JE No, just tell her to do it in writing… Request her 1 phone call for due process.
End of call.
* * *

* * *
New call.
J** Okay I’m thinking what they might want to try, they’re in state court right?
D** No they’re in federal court .
J** Oh, okay.  Now in federal court the magistrate issues the bond.  Well first they should all ask the jailer for 1 phone call, even though they have had phone calls they haven’t had  "the" phone call.  You have a right to call the judge that can issue the bond.
D** Should they tell them that it is a magistrate that issue the pr bond that they want?
J** Yeah I  would.  Right off the bat tell the jailer that you want a phone call to the judge that can issue the pr bond now.  If they dishonor and more than likely they are going to, what I would try is you pick a magistrate in that court, have your brother call you and you 3 way a call to that magistrate, and then your going to get the clerk or somebody and then have R** tell them who he is, give him his full name, case number, now we have offer and acceptance and return of the offer and I request settlement, no I do not dispute the facts in the case, I request the p.r. bond, (because that recognizes the natural person) and enables you to plead to the charges and just go with it that way.  When you get the clerk, the clerk should know and put the judge on the phone,  just tell him we have offer and acceptance and return of your offer and I request remedy.  Be sure and tell him "I don’t dispute  any of the facts in the case".  It doesn’t matter if they disputed them before don’t worry about that, just state we don’t dispute anything at this point you don’t.  At this point your accepting and returning all their offers. Just request settlement.  What it does is, actually your remedy is coming in common law because once you have offer and acceptance and no dispute, that does away with that and the judge can now rule on law and discharge the bond. That’s what I would try.  We are thinking the telephone call is necessary because it’s like an electronic fund transfer and you have to have the direct charge from the phone line, so that’s what I would do.  Get one of them on the phone and try it.  First of all you don’t want to waste much time cause you don’t have much time, but I would do a request to one of the guards right there, right away, you know, for your phone call….. and this is a due process violation if they fail to do that.  That’s where I would go with them with that, now your violating my due process because I have a right to 1 phone call  and yep I’ve had phone calls before but you failed to put me in contact with the judge who can issue this bond.
So they still have that phone call coming…  just bind on their conscience.
D** Now J** has already been sentenced and JE** says she can do.. go ahead and request this appearance bond on the appeal…
J**  Right!  At any time you have the right to request the bond, even after the appeal.  It’s something we have coming.
D** Oh I see, no matter what.
J** Exactly!  It doesn’t matter when as long as that case is still pending and you haven’t had closure.   You have the right to request that bond… it’s closure. They’ve been accepting their offers and returning them, so they’re violating our due process.   The courts failure to give you the bond is their admittance that there is no charges and if there is no charges then we have fraud here.  This gives us another avenue to the habeas corpus.  Everybody has identified themselves or stated that they are the natural man and not the strawman.
Another question is how can they put these restrictions or limitations on a natural man without a claim?   So there issues for the habeas.  So we have 2 or 3 good issues for the habeas; but the bond on the phone we think is going to be the most effective.  If the judge refuses in the voluntary dishonor, charge the involuntary bankruptcy and you request he do it involuntary, press the issue, you know you are violating my due process rights by failing to do this, or your are admitting there are no charges and now you are involved in a fraud, you just lied to a federal question here and now we have a real problem, and it something else we can take into court.  So when they do this, just like your setting them up here for a fall, take all the issues, you got each one of these things here!  You got the due process, they need to mention them, violation of due process if you fail to give me this it’s your admission that there are no charges.  The courts are operating in civil not criminal and that you are stealing my exemption without a charge, you just lay this all out.  First your going to have to deal with the clerk, you’re going to have to go through all this with the clerk until they get the judge on the phone, are you refusing me?  They hate to tell you they’re refusing anything..
D** The clerk is going to want to know what it’s all about first, right?
J** Right!  Tell them that you were told that this is the judge that can issue the pr bond that will allow me to plead to the charges and if he’s not the judge then they have an obligation to tell you who the proper judge is.  Ask are you refusing me?  No I’m not capable of doing it, okay?  Who does have my remedy?  Well I don’t know.   Are you refusing me my remedy by refusing me this information?  You are a judge and you know who can issue this bond.  You are refusing me and the dishonor serves to charge the involuntary bankruptcy.
Just be persistent with them and know you’re going to have to deal with the clerk and then you’re going to have to deal with the judge and doing all this in 15 minutes is going to be tough.  So they’re going to have to explain to the clerk and judge, I’m calling from the jail.  I have to do this on my own dime because I was refused information, refused my call and they violated my due process, therefore I am coming to you for remedy.  You just lay the blame right where it is.  I asked the jailer who has the liability, he has refused me, the involuntary  bankruptcy allows me to call you direct on this line,  and we deal with the limitations of this phone line and if this conversation on this  phone line isn’t adequate then clerk you need to call this jailer and get them to get me out on their phone line.
You just keep pressing them, they have to be very adamant but do not get into side issues.  It’s important that they don’t start a controversy on any thing else. The issue here is the bond. Nothing else!  I don’t dispute and of the facts, I  have accepted and returned and now I request settlement.  Just keep it up like a stuck record.   Just lay it out… dishonor and obstruction is a criminal act of due process violation and we got fraud.   Somebody is stealing my exemption, which is clear because you have me locked up.  There’s the proof that you where taking my exemption and your failure to give me the bond is your admission that there are no charges and therefore there is evidence and admission of the fraud.
D** Now in your case they gave you some sass and they appealed it you say?
J**  Yep!
D** They appealed it?
J**  Yeah!  The states attorney put in the appeal.
D** You just had to do the same thing?
J** Yeah.  Now what happened to me was, and I knew I was doing this to myself, I ended up without a bond on release but they didn’t give me a bond and they put me on an ankle bracelet, okay?  So they put a private claim on me, that happened because I ran my mouth, but I did that on purpose.  I specifically did it.  I knew I was going to end up without the bond and you know without what I wanted.  I took that gamble and did it because I wanted to deliver a message to those m* f*!  I was in 4 courtrooms in 5 days, and there was a different judge on everyone of them and this courthouse down here all know that we all know where we’re going with this and that we are not going to lay down and die. And we will fight them to conclusion…  We don’t care if we have to take their stuff, or lock them up or try them for treason or whatever.   We can and we will proceed until we get conclusion.
D** Okay so J** does the same as everyone else right?
J** Exactly!  Tell her to just relax and get her head straight we’re dealing with our consciences here.  If our consciences are not clear and straight then we’re not going to pull it off.  The night before they make the phone call they are going to have to instruct their sub-conscience to work this out, so that the sub-conscience is clear in the morning, so that there is no issue with the sub-conscience , that’s just an issue between the conscience and the sub-conscience mind, they must do this, they have to command their sub-conscience to straighten this out.  Clear and precise when they make this call.

End of Call

May 16, 2002

** I have a question regarding the UCC1 National form filing against Norman Mineta.  Where do we send that?  The Secretary of State in our state or Washington DC?
R: Oh no that goes to Washington DC.
** So that would go to Colin Powell as the Secretary of State for the United States?
R: Yeah Powell is the enforcer.  Mineta is the Department of Transportation and he would be the bankruptcy trustee.
** Okay so I get an idea or better understanding of this.  When they dishonor you in the involuntary bankruptcy, you then send that UCC1 to Colin Powell?
R: Well what I’m going to do and everybody can make up what way they want to proceed to set up the evidence of the dishonor.  What I’m doing for myself, and I may change after I see how it works but I’m going to confront the local Secretary of State and if they dishonor then you see I’m going to file her name as the debtor on the form that goes to Washington.  I’m going to request that they charge her for the fees.   So that’ll actually be the involuntary bankruptcy right there regardless of whether its filed in a bankruptcy court or not.
** Now when you’re saying the national forms you are talking the UCC1’s that have just been revised since July?
R: Yeah!
** Good!  That’s what I thought.   Okay I think I’m understanding this, and I will try to convey that this is still in the apprenticeship stage and may need more changes as it starts unfolding.   J** and I were talking and we thought that Colin Powell was over the Dept of Transportation and Mineta was over all the Secretary of States or do I have it backwards….?
R: Well Colin Powell is the enforcer.  He’s got all the guns.  Mineta is just the fella that has to provide the remedy.
** Okay I was trying to sort through and get to the who has to do what.  If their respective duty is not doing their job who do we contact to make them do them as we keep getting dishonored and dishonored trying to find our remedy.
R: See the dishonor… we may want to look a little further as to when the dishonor actually becomes a dishonor in fact as a matter of evidence.  That might be some of the problem that people are labeling something a dishonor and you don’t have it into evidence yet.
** Right.  Okay I remember you telling me that before.  So our basic intention is to do whatever we can to obtain our remedy.  So if we just go about obtaining our remedy and requesting them to provide the product, cause there being no money and using our exemption…  So the bottom line is we are trying to get them to comply public policy or get Mineta and Powell to enforce public policy?
R: Umhum!  Well you see what we’ve got here too is we’ve got a fellow here who is going to a hearing for the 3rd day in a row.  He just keeps on them and requesting his personal recognizance bond and the judge just got livid.  But you see he still has to set them up for the 3rd day in a row now.
** Now is he in custody or out?
R: No, he’s in custody.  But you see this judge is denying it.  The guy asked him, “Are you refusing me?”  and the judge said, “Yes I’m refusing you the bail bond.”   This guy wasn’t asking for bail.  We don’t want no damn bail bond.  But the thing is… and the judge started to studder and stammer.  This guy shook him pretty good, but he still told him threats of “I’m going to arraign you tomorrow and bla bla bla. And hold you over for whatever.”  Well that means they are getting ready to charge him.
** Oh good!  Okay.
R: Sure but they’re faking it.   But you see what they’re doing is they’re trying to NOT charge anybody cause that leaves them in charge of your property.  But when they charge you see and we have the appearance bond then we can redeem the debt.  Then they have to hand over the property.
** Okay so we really have to set them up in a way?
R: Well see we have to make them bring the criminal charge.
** Oh bring the criminal charge.  So it’s still going to be some kind of a challenge to get it to criminal and then get them to charge you.
R: Yeah well see to many of the patriots here say, “Well I want you to charge me.”  but then they do a lot of things to obstruct it.  So damn afraid of them charges.   It’s the body language or things that they do that indicates they don’t want to be charged.
** Yes I have had people ask me, “Oh you have to be a martyr to do this?”
R: Well you don’t have to go to jail but you have to have a criminal charge.  When you get a bond then you walk.  I know a guy that was taken into custody just a few days ago and then the took him and transported him from So. Dakota to Minneapolis and the next day he went before the judge and he got his bond and his wife came picked him up and took him home.
** So then he has another hearing now to plead guilty?
R: Oh yea!  I’ll be in a week or so.
** I talked with F* H* today and he said to tell you “Hi” but he’s doing this and I told him he has to be released on his own pr in order to plead because he can’t be in custody.  Also that you have to do this with a phone call for it to be on a closed circuitry.   Is there anything else he needs to know that I should try to tell him?
R: Well what this guy is going to do tomorrow is if this guy, judge doesn’t give it to him he is going to tell him, “You’re obstructing and you’re the one that is preventing the settlement in this case, because you’re failing to provide me with an appearance bond to enable me to plead to the charge so you see if you can’t bring a charge, then you don’t have any.  You’re obstructing and deliberately trying to linger the criminal charge on here when you don’t have any.”
** That would be barretry then.
R: Yeah!  Yeah!   Vexatious litigation to prevent the charge.  You tell them you demand to be charged…. Or released immediately.  Yeah I told him to go ahead and accuse that judge of  personally being the one responsible for the… obstruction.
** Oh then the judge would loose his immunity that they so frequently hide their crime behind.
Okay well I think I have enough information to keep everyone on the right track for awhile.   Thanks….

May 20, 2002, 10:15 am                  Shared conversation

D** About the bankruptcy petition, I want to put in a check from my brother’s private account, now do I just put clerk of court on it or do I put his name on it?
R* You put the clerk’s name on it.
D** I’m thinking about going right down there with it, you know, having them do it so I get a receipt right away.  Oh you were saying I should get this notarized, so I’ll have to sign R*’s name and then sign my name as being signed by me and notarize it, do you think that’s going to screw anything up taking it in there like that?
R* Well I don’t think its going to screw it up here, do you have a notary that won’t try and get funny with you?
D** Oh yeah I have one that’s been doing it for me.  I sign his name, than I put ‘signed by’ and sign my name under it and then have her notarize it.
R* Yeah, right!  Yeah! Yeah.
D** So that’s going to be lawful to do it that way?
R*  Well it’s not a matter of lawful, its other things, don’t put those terms on it, even in your own mind, that’s just here so that the signature can be recognized by a military officer.
D** That’s what the U.S. Marshals are, the military officers I guess.
R* Oh they’re all operating under the military, when their operating under this law, yeah. They’re all commissioned.
D** At first R** was told not to give his name until he’s requesting the bond, but now I guess he’s not to give his name until after the bond is in front of the judge.  Now how does that work?
R* Well he’s got to give his name to get a bond, when he’s talking to the judge, but you see, he’s got to request his one phone call, that’s where it’s at, because you’re going into a closed circuit, that’s closed. That’s the closing!
D** Yeah but so far they haven’t been able to get that.
R* I know that’s what the whole game is.  The whole game is to prevent them from being charged, so is the use of the exemption.  You can put that in here as a concluding factor, that since he has not been charged the administrators in accordance here are using that to delay charging him to remain in control and use of the exemption, which is a fugitive.  You see because he claims his exemption, until the administrators perform their duty, and only then will the administrators obtain equity by prepayment here of the charge.
D** You guys put that as (couldn’t make out--  I think it should be OBSTRUCTION) right on the petition?
R*  Sure I’d put it right on it, and you see the failure of these people to give him the name and telephone number of the judge who is responsible to provide him with his appearance bond on his own personal recognizance is the person responsible or preventing him from pleading to the charge for the redemption of the debt.  If you describe that clear they’re going to start to get real nervous because everything here that they’re doing hinder and obstruct the deployment of the bond he has requested produces the evidence, that those persons are in possession of contraband.  Because they are in the in the business of obstructing for their unjust enrichment or whatever, just get the idea on as a reason why he’s requesting the bond then get it down to where it’s fairly short, don’t take me word for word on the phone, just get the idea laid in there so you can get this into an affidavit form with a notary so you can use it on everybody
D** Oh so attach it to the petition?
R* Oh yeah.
D** Okay, don’t have to put it on the petition just write it on a separate piece of paper
R* Sure.  Then however you’re going to use it.
D** Okay, now P* is going in for sentencing tomorrow so I don’t know if we can get this all in before he goes in .
R* Here’s the thing, he can’t plead to the charge, unless he’s got the bond.  No matter what happens, even if people have been in prison and they have been convicted and sentenced for years, they can go back and challenge that whole thing on the basis that they have never gotten their due process phone call.  They call that appeals and such, but the appeals that are made in their appellate court b*s* is a joke.  The thing that you’re doing right now is bringing the fact in whether you go to the appeals or whatever, you’re just confronting the individuals that are responsible for this.
D** I was just thinking the quicker the better.
R* Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!  But you’re showing your fears here of being sentenced or anything, those things are just as relevant as all of the other minor controversies here you had early in the game, you see because its all pretend sentence and everything , because it’s a pretend case here and they put on a performance.   The name of person is the strawman their sentencing, but they have these dumb a**h**** lackeys that they’ve got duped into thinking that that’s really sentencing people in the flesh and blood , so that’s why you want to get this statement here so that it clears it up, and shows exactly what these fellows are doing without putting statements in there that make it generic and people reading it unable to see.  That’s why your saying that the due process has been denied.  See when they tell you you must exhaust your administrative remedies before you can obtain an execution of law.
Exhausting your remedies means when you burn something you get an exhaust, well that means you’ve gone into the atomic structure, you’ve gone into another set of rules, you’ve gone into the indirect evidence or you’ve gone into a closed circuit, a closing.  The closed circuit here is the telephone line, and that is to be put into contact with the judge who can give you that appearance bond.  Yeah because that omnibus bill is what their hiding in, the omnibus bill is still a senate bill, it’s no different than any other title 18 charge, but they’re using that to take it secret you see.
D** My brother was reading an article about the McVeigh trial and they said it was done in camera, and the judge used that same phrase for this trial.
R* Oh yeah!  You see they go in secret, in camera they go into the chambers of commerce, the court chambers, but to go into ‘in camera’, see when they use to go in camera years ago, when you snap a picture the film in the camera is the negative, but with the improved technology we have a camera like a Polaroid it does the development right in camera, color.   You see your claims under the omnibus bill and things you have to bring the evidence in color into the negative, you have to state a colorful claim, see that’s what it means.  You see what you’re doing, you’re bringing the evidence in, and even when we give them those checks on these closed accounts, so when you accept and return and request and state that you’re not going to dispute any of the facts, now you’ve brought color .
Why?  Because  you have removed the issue of fact at that point and now the judge can rule on the law.   Well you see these guys are operating personally.  You are writing the check out to the person and you see their claiming the strawman does not have any account that is recognizable in the public.  Why?  Because the public side of the account has been closed, so when you sign that check, you are actually acting as your brother’s attorney in fact, you’re signing in a representable capacity.  You should put a mark where you’re going to sign his name.
D** Well I already have the checks signed by him.
R* Okay put a statement in this affidavit stating that all of the instruments signed by him  are signed in a representable capacity.   He is representing Y**** R ***** B**** and R***** B**** Y****( in capital letters ) where ever he has signed those names he has signed in a representable capacity, because when you sign a check they hold you personally responsible because they think its your strawman that signed it, so when you sign it you sign it as a representative, because all revenue bills must originate in the house not in the senate, in this case it happens to be a house hold.  The house is the holder of the debt.  Those 3 parts Y ** R**, R** Y** and then R** Y ** secured party  are all 3 members of the same house hold.

*** End of Call ***

Short conversation in May 2002 -  UCC 1 Application re bond

D*** Just thought I would give you a buzz and fill you in on what’s going on.
J**  Okay
D***  Yeah my brother sent in the letter to the judge with the dishonor.  For the letter to the prosecutor.  He didn’t write DISHONOR on the letter and sent it back to the prosecutor.  He should probably do that right away…Right?
J**  No you don’t have to send one back to him.  He dishonored… that’s all
D*** So do I wait 5 days and do a dishonor on the judge?
J**  You did a request for remedy to the judge right?  Well you got to wait and see what he’s going to do.  I would take that dishonor and that request for remedy and put in on a UCC1, file the judge as a debtor and the Prosecutor as a debtor and I would send them to him too and to the judge too.  They have to have a hearing to close this thing out.  I would just put as much pressure on him as you can.  File both of them on a UCC1 and send it to the judge and let him know how serious you are.
D*** Okay,  Now do you put both names on 1 UCC or should you do 2 different ones?
J**  I would do 2 different ones.  Involuntary bankruptcy charges the account to pay the fees.
D***  You mean the fees to file the UCC?
J** Correct.
D*** Just write that on there?
J** Write a letter there that you know please charge the account to the debtor for the fees and cost.  Involuntary bankruptcy charges the account.
D***  Then after that, do I wait a week?
J**  You have to wait and see what they do in court.  See if they are going to close it out or not.
D***  So we wait until they have their sentencing hearing?
J** Yeah!
D*** Oh you have to wait that long?
J** Oh Yeah!  You have to wait to give them a chance to do it at the hearing.   You have to wait for the hearing and then if he’s dishonored there you just tell them, “We have offer and acceptance and want closure here.”  Then if the judge dishonors then you file the involuntary bankruptcy.
D***  So it won’t hurt to wait until they have their hearing?… To hit them with that?
J** Yeah, but I would file the UCC on them.  Let them know that you filed it.
D*** Do that right away huh?
J** Yeah, I would attach the dishonor to the prosecutor to one and the request and for remedy to the judges, two separate UCC1’s.  Just file them right attached to them.  Then send a copy to the judge and the prosecutor and let them know and they’ll know that you’re serious and then see what happens at the hearing.

T Re:  Incident with sentencing hearing in May, 2002 …
D**  Oh not going to the stand when he was suppose to.
R* Oh, Okay.
D** They wanted the court appointed to bring the defendant to the stand, to the microphone and he wouldn’t go, so the marshals forced him.  They ended up putting him in hand cuffs and ankle bracelets.
R* Good! Good! Well because now that they have him under arrest he can start to press the appearance bond, since they haven’t given him an appearance bond they’re the ones obstructing the process not him. Because you can’t plead guilty while you’re in custody or under the threat of bodily injury, that’s what they’re threatening him with.
D** Yeah they put him in a wheelchair to take him out of there, he wasn’t hurt they just had him bound up.
R* Now you see he’s eligible for the appearance bond.  You can’t compromise with these people and I think PJ knows that.
D** Then he should keep going after them for the appearance bond?
R* Yeah! Yeah!  Because that there is the basis for the habeas corpus. Because it’s based on contract and that’s what the Marshals are used to enforce.   See they’re taking their position.  I don’t really know, that will remain to be seen.
D** Well I’m glad to hear its good instead of not so good.
R* What they’re doing is they are not charging you, .and when they charge you, you need the bond so you can plead to the charge.  Well if they don’t give you the bond then they admit they don’t have any charges, because you can’t plea to any charges if you’re in custody.  That’s extortion, that’s what the Miranda case was all about.  They can’t use evidence to convict anybody so nobodies been convicted.  Why?  Because they never appeared.  So what happens if you’re not there, the judge will enter a plea for you and he entered a not guilty plea, okay?  Well the not guilty plea means, now they say you’re guilty and he says you’re not, and now you have a controversy in fact and so they don’t have to rule on the law.  That’s the basis of the rational.
D**  It’s like a slippery slope that they put them on.
R* Oh yeah!  Yep-yep!  Well that’s okay.  Just make the marshals put you in the chains.  Hell, when we were in Hawaii we ran for the doors 3 times, they had to stop us and bring us back, so you see when he’s in chains then he’s not presumed to be innocent, and he wants to plead guilty, that’s what these ba****ds have reversed on you.  Once you plead guilty and you have the bond you get a discharge on the bond.
D** Yeah they said he was trying to escape, and they locked him down and all that.
R* Oh yeah!  Yeah, that’s okay they have him in custody.  Now you see… now he has to harangue on them to get his one phone call.  I don’t care if he’s had a hundred calls that’s the call they have to give him.  He’s just going to have to harangue on them until his request gets so loud its not going to be ignored.  See what they’re doing is saying, “We got charges and your going to do this and gonna do that and blah blah blah”.  Well I demand to be charged and then I request release because if they’re going to charge you they have to release you on your own recognizance bond.  But you need to tell them that you don’t plan to dispute any of the facts.  In other words they know you’re planning on pleading guilty.  If the judge tries to enter the plea for you, you object and say you need the bond to enable me to enter a guilty plea, because you agree to all the facts and when you get a discharge, an execution, you see what happens is the debt is what gets executed, its DONE - IT’S FINISHED.