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Credo Mutwa Reptilians

 

Transcript between Roger Elvick and Private Party (“**”) October 19, 2002
 In progress:

**:    ‘. . . just issue my check’
R:    From my account.
**    ‘From my account . . .’
R    That you’re the holder of.
**:    ‘That you’re the holder of . . .’
R:    Yeah.
**:    That’s simple enough.
R:    Yep.
**:    Well what they’ve done is, I’ve sat down and I wrote a letter to the general counsel and the assistant general counsel and I fired them from any third-party debt collection from me.  And at the same time I wrote a nice letter to the president and the senior vice president making an inquiry about the bank holding my exemption and debiting my account and I gave the account number, which is the open liability account, for $24 one day and the next day another $24.  Basically what they were doing was treating it like a loan.  They took $24 out and the next day they paid the loan with the second $24 that they debited.  And they were debiting my account of interest every day.  I was monitoring this for a period of several days over my telephone bank service thing, and I just cleared my whole account out.  I only had $80 left in there, and I cleared it out down to $1.50.  The following day, which was last Friday, it only had 69 cents left in there.  And I was quite interested, and then this week what happened was on Wednesday I noticed that they put the $48 back in.  So my letters worked.  Because I said to them, “Is this a bank error or omission or is this theft, trespass and operating in equity with unclean hands?”  I just left it as a question to them.  And they corrected it.  But they didn’t put the interest back in.  But I went to my contract with the bank.  And I got a photocopy of the 2-page contract.  And in the withholding box there’s a category that says “exempt Recipient” under the IRS Regulations.  I got to thinking, I structured that checking account on the liability side making myself liable to—I believe what I need to do is go back and do a non-interesting bearing without the Social Security Number, the TIN; it’s a felony for them to Require that you provide it unless you’re getting Social Security benefits or government benefits, and that’s why they put the APR on there.  Even if it’s 2% per year that’s considered income.  
    R:    Yeah, but:  You see, interest has not been paid back to the principal, or if they took it out of your account it had to go to a principal somewhere.  Just write and ask them who the principal is here that they took the interest here; what principal account did they place the interest out of this account into?
**    It’s only a few dollars . . .
R:    Yeah, I know!  See, that’s a crime.
**    It’s a crime, they can’t balance their accounts.
R:    It doesn’t make any difference how much money it is.
**    It could be one cent and it’s a crime, right?
R:    Yeah!  You might have trouble there.  See, when you’re dealing with cents you’re only dealing on the “state” side.  You’ve got to get one dollar or more.
**    It was definitely one dollar or more that’s for sure.  But anyways, it was interesting how they reversed it for me.  I’ve been talking with people all over who were saying, “No, you can’t have an open liability account in the same bank where you have your closed account, because they’ll do this to you.  They’ll do the setoff, they’ll do the debiting from your open account.”  But from what I understand, this is a very first where they reversed it.  And what I’ve done, I also sent a copy of my—I copyrighted my FICTION names.  And I recorded them in the county court of records.  And that usually is like garlic to vampires when it comes to these attorneys.  When they see that, because they’re only working on the statutory side and—
R:    Yeah.  The attorney can’t work on the statutory side.  
**    Can or cannot?
R:    He cannot.
**    What side does he work on?  When we license him.
R:    The equity side.
**    Okay, yes.  So he’s working on the equity side, but it’s still the FICTIONAL side.
R:    Yeah, but you’ve got to remember, when they’re in equity here they have no rights here at law.  None!  They can’t use the statutes because when they take their oath at the BAR, they waive their citizenship.  They don’t have any rights here in the states.
**    That’s right, they’re a foreign agent.
R:    Yeah.
**    They’re part of the British Accredited Registry.
R:    So they’re in pure equity.  So you see, as soon as we show that they have an agreement with us and if they have gone delinquent, you see, then they can’t come to equity with clean hands.  Now that’s the time for us to discover their personal assets because they have agreed to that.  But you see we don’t have a specific contract yet.  That’s when you give them notice here of your intent to file reorganization in bankruptcy, Chapter 11.  It’s not a Chapter 13 and it’s not a Chapter 12.  
**    I understand, Chapter 11.  And that will lead to the Chapter 7, won’t it?
R:    Yep, well, if you don’t come to agreement and they don’t take settlement.  You see what you do, you see the reorganization, see you’re not filing the debtor bankrupt.  You’re only filing to reorganize the debtor.  Okay, that means that at this particular time the creditor assumes to be the holder of the assets, and to be the owner!  They’re assuming here they are the owners, okay?  So when you reorganize in bankruptcy that means now you’re coming as debtor in possession.  So debtor in possession:  Now, you see, you just reversed the roles between you and the creditor.  Now the creditor:  Before you actually file the action, you give him a preliminary notice of intent to file Chapter 11 reorganization in bankruptcy.  And then with that you give him a request for settlement, for immediate settlement, otherwise he will agree to discovery of his personal assets.  Now you’ve got him into a contract position, you see, and I think the reason things wouldn’t work before is you didn’t get them into that contract position to where now, even if he wants to resist, now you see you still have him on the alternative.  He can either volunteer or not.  If he fails to volunteer now you’ve got him in involuntary bankruptcy, and now you see if he wants to continue to fuss, well then we can go to liquidation—Chapter 7.  Liquidate the property and Reserve the right to reject all bids.  Because what you’re doing you’re putting those bids on Reserve.  
    **    It’s interesting that all these bankers, I mean the whole system, it appears, is operating under Law Merchants, and their assumption is we are all merchants out there, their chattel property or all merchants, and they have a presumed contract with us, a summary judgment, every time they give us a presentment.
    R:    Yeah.  But the thing is, you see, when we accept and we ask them for their check, you see, that means  that if they haven’t produced their check to cover the amount  of the transaction they fail to get an assessment, see, because what they’re doing, they’re coming in to assess here the collateral damage and—
**    They have to have an assessment to have a claim?
R:    Yeah, because it’s a felony to charge a claim without an assessment.  Okay?  So we just tell them, “Hey, I didn’t find your check enclosed,” so you return the asset to them there which is the contract, the agreement in writing.  Whatever their offer was.  That’s why a lot of them like to get into telemarketing and doing all this stuff on the internet because there isn’t any paper trail on them.  But you see, if you’re coming in over a telephone line there you can find the evidence right there with the phone records.  But see, all of us here are not up to speed on keeping those kinds of records, because even on a fax machine you see you’ve got a printout on the fax that shows whose phone number the offer came in over.  
    **    That’s why I’ve heard on different occasions that people will send back an “accepted for value, returned for value” presentment over a fax line and it stops everything, when they put “Certificate of Origin/EFT” at the top.  Because that becomes an electronic funds transfer when they do it by fax.  If they mail it, they don’t consider it an electronic funds transfer.  Or that’s what has been shared with me.  Does that sound right to you?
    R:    Well, probably.  I’m not sure about the electronic funds because you see they try to go to a land line, they’re not electronic but wire transfer; that’s not electronic per se.  
**    Oh, I see.  They don’t consider that electronic then.  But digital would be, would it not?
R:    No, because that’s a closed circuit, see.  You see they aren’t letting in all the evidence here out of other circuits.  It’s like putting blinders on a horse so they can’t see what’s going on alongside of them.  So they put a firewall between them and the evidence that binds them and then they can just keep plowing straight ahead.
**    Well, I had one specific question for you that is not clear in my mind and the question is, when do we accept for value and return for value in exchange for settlement and closure?  And we say—
R:    For what kind of closure?
**    Settlement and closure, in exchange for settlement and closure.  And then we say, “adjust the accounts, products, proceeds and fixtures and release the Order of the court to me immediately.”  Should we not add onto that, “Release the bond and all assets attached”?
R:    No.  That is the order.  The bond—you see, you start getting into these extra words here and you’re going to be going on and on forever.  You see a bond can be a lot of things.  People say—see I got into this the other night here with people who were going to say, “Well, we’ve got to make them put up their bonds.”  Well, that’s when I ask the attorney, “I did not find your check enclosed.”  That’s his bond.  He’s got to cover himself for the amount of the controversy.
**    I understand what you’re saying, but it’s still a little bit unclear in that the property—aren’t there two sides to the ledger, and isn’t the bond the asset side?
:    R:    Not in this particular one.  You’ve got to get . . . why are you talking about another side of the ledger when you haven’t solved this one yet?  You see, well, I had to get after a lot of people because they start getting on to the next order of business before they finish up here!  And a lot of times when you finish this one side of the account you don’t have to go to the other one.
**    So when you say, “Release the order of the court to me immediately,” that’s taking care of both sides is what you’re saying then.  The property—
R:    Well, yeah, but you see I’m always addressing both sides because I’m addressing the property itself.  Sure there’s two sides to the account, but those people are the ones in charge and they are the ones here that are responsible to handle it.  I’m reaching the point here that I’ve given them instructions to adjust that account, pay the bills, whatever that adjustment takes and release my property to me.  I don’t care about the money, I just want the property, because you see the reason we’re doing this is, what we’re doing with that electronic fund transfer is we’re doing away with the corporate liability.  The corporation no longer has a liability.  They’ve fulfilled their purpose at that point.  And they’re allowing these liabilities to continue to circulate around.  Why?  Because there hasn’t been a redeemer that’s come in and said, “That’s mine here and you can use my account to get rid of the liabilities.”  Otherwise the debt continues to circulate and it’s a negative value and now we have so much of it here in the world now that it’s destroying the health and everything of masses of people.  Just because of that, just because of the refusal or failure to redeem the debt.  Because the debt, when it’s redeemed—you see, that’s the reason for the military.  The military is brought on and when you equip a military organization, what do you do?  You make bombs and shells and all this kind of stuff.  Well, what you’re doing when you do that is you’re storing energy, you’re storing fissionable energy and when that energy has reached a point to where it’s time to return to Mother Earth it goes back, it destroys all of the unredeemed property and it’s returned to Mother Earth because there’s no redeemer to do it, you see.  It’s an implosion then.  The explosion  then results in what?  Results in destruction of a structure of some kind and the structure implodes and goes back to Mother Earth.  So that’s the closure by Mother Earth, but see a lot of energy that’s stored up there in all the weapons of mass destruction.
**    So it’s charged up and it hasn’t been discharged yet.
R:    Right.  Right.
**    And that’s why they keep on talking about discharging it.  In fact probably what happened in Bali recently could have been a small discharge of a nuclear explosion is something I heard recently, there in Bali?  Just this week there was a large explosion in Bali, there in Indonesia?  At a tourist resort.  There was a report there was a small nuclear device that went off.
R:    Oh, yeah! yeah! yeah.
**    So, I was a little bit fuzzy in my understanding and I thank you for clearing that up.  Where I was fuzzy was, I was looking at the word “bond” as keeping our property in bondage, and the king owns the property and what I was thinking was to give our command to release the order of the court to me immediately and then walk out, we’re walking out and the bond is still being held.  And they’re still trading those bonds on the bond market.
R:    Oh yeah, but you see at that point the key is to bind the conscience.  We don’t have to prove all this up in public paper and things like that because when these guys came on the phone just like that guy who stumbles, I said, “You are the holder of my account, are you not?”  “No—oh, yes!” he says.  He jumped right back, you know, he answered too quick when he said, “No.”
**    And that’s when you said, “Issue my check from my account that you’re the holder of.”
R:    Yeah.  Uh huh.  I don’t have to have paper, I found his conscience and if he gets outside of that he’s liable to cash in his chips.  Because you see, the electronic funds transfer is authorized in the intelligence, it starts in the mind.  If he’s originating an account or he has an account with me he’d better have his conscience clear, and if he’s going to claim an equitable claim and he doesn’t have it in fact, and I’ve already gotten him to testify, he’s acting against himself if I don’t get relief now.  He’s just contracted through “aids”.  The “aid” from the City of London.  Read the Magna Carta and it talks about “aid” from the City.  The reason that they’re talking about it from the City of London is because this is where the Lloyds of London draw their insurance from, for instance, and you see when you go into, say, “Greater Dallas,” for instance as opposed to just the “City of Dallas,” it’s “Greater Dallas”?  Well see you’re going into the “Great Bond” then here and that is “aid” from the City of London because these are the insurance bonds or the surplus bonds of the banks.  So when they’re dealing with “aid” and those “aids” are all bought by contract, when I return the contract to them and he fails to return my property he no longer has clean hands.  And I told him specifically when he agreed that he was the holder of my account and I told him to pay the bills, if he didn’t do it, see, he’s got a contract within his own mind between his conscious and his subconscious mind.  And he’s just pronounced judgment on himself.
**    So when I ask them the question that I did in my letter to them, I was speaking to their conscience and that’s why they then went and put the $48 back in but they still owe me because they’re still holding the interest.
    R:    Write them a letter and ask them:  The interest that they took out, which principal received it?  Who was the principal account where they placed that interest?
**    Then when I found out that information, if they come back and give me that information, that probably will trigger them to correct it, right?
R:    Oh, yeah!  You just tell them you want to know the principal account into which they applied the interest from the account because the interest belongs to you.  What they’re doing, they’re assuming they have another principal they are serving.  So ask them, just tell them you want a show of the principal account under which the interest taken from your account, you want to know what principal account it went into.  Or it may have been another interest account.  Because you see, there are only two places for money:  One is interest and the other is principal.  When there’s interest out here it’s all debt, it’s all [?].  When the principal is in the account it’s all paid.  So your principal account is basically going to show zero.  But you see, you want to show how they took the interest from your account and how and when and where they applied it to the principal because you want to know whose principal that interest was applied to.
**    If they correct it are they still liable for even doing it?
    R:    Well, let’s not get into that.  You don’t need to get into that.  You’re going to have a hard time just getting the mechanics straight here.
**    The other question I have for you is, what I’m planning on doing this week is, I’m planning on going and closing that account on the liability side and within the same bank before I close it I’m going to open up a non-interesting bearing account without my Social Security Number or EIN number there, no tax identification number to that.
R:    Why?
**    Well, my thought was to have an exempt recipient account.
R:    You’re not going to be exempt  because you don’t have the means to contract.
**    Well, the actual exemption is, that exempt recipient account is in my FICTION name, correct?
R:    Yeah, but just because it’s sitting there doesn’t make it exempt.
**    Even if it says so in the contract?
R:    Right!  Because see what you’re trying to do, you’re trying to convert verbs into nouns.  
**    What my thought was, R, was to take an exempt exchange instrument and place it into the exempt Recipient account of my corporate—
R:    That’s still—just because it’s an instrument here, an exempt exchange instrument, doesn’t make it exempt!  It’s what you do with it that makes it exempt, and that means it’s an action verb here, you’re not going to get anywhere here creating all these graven images.  That’s what you’re doing, because you’re treating them like nouns.
**    You’re speaking of my corporate FICTION, the Straw man.
R:    Yeah!  See the best way here is to keep that one account you’ve got in the bank and just write a check and overdraw the account.  Let them close it, don’t you try it, let them.
**    So write a check to overdraw and then let them close it.  
R:    Yeah!
**    They’re going to say I owe them or my debtor—
R:    Okay, that’s good.  Now they’re going to say you owe them money.  Then write them a check on that account for that, because the account is closed at that point.  See, you’re going to give them a check and they’re going to come in here stating that your account’s overdrawn, they paid it and now you owe them.  Okay?  Then when you get that bill from them here just give them another check for the amount they’re asking for.
**    Define “check”.  Are you talking about the open liability side or the private side?
R:    Don’t get into that!  That’s not your business, that’s theirs.  You’re not going to win when you try and banter with them like that.  I’m just telling you:  Just overdraw the account.  Let them, and if you want the overdrawn check in friendly hands, write it to somebody you know.  They deposit it, bang! It’s going to hit the bank here and the bank is going to do something that’s going to let you know here that you’re in arrears or that you owe this much money.  They’re probably going to say that you owe it to them.  Soon as they do that, then give them a check from the same account.
**    Physically write them a check off that same account?
R:    Yeah, because somewhere in that fracas they’re going to close the account.  That’s the closing of escrow.  I know a guy, see, we had some experiments with a couple of these deals.  One guy here had some overdraft protection for about a thousand dollars.  He just kept writing and he went into the overdraft protection and they kept paying the checks.  When it passed a thousand, why, he was expecting, well when are they going to close the account?  He called me up and said, “I’m over the thousand now, over my overdraft limit.  What do I do?”  And I said, “Keep writing checks, they’re making them good, aren’t they?”  He did and he got to three thousand and then over and they finally closed the account.  But that’s the closing of escrow.  You just have to be sure you understand that and hold their feet to the fire and don’t get into too many of these other abstract ideas here that you were talking about because you can’t win because they’re on the side here, they know what they’re doing here and they don’t tell you.  So I don’t care how you conduct your business here Mr. Banker just as long as you look after my property.  I’m not going to try to go in there and tell them how to do this bookkeeping.  The only bookkeeping I’m interested in is what I just told them here.  Issue my check and pay my bill.
**    So when the account is closed, just write them a check for what they’re asking for and that will settle and close it.
R:    I didn’t say that.  I didn’t say when the account is closed, I said you write a check.  You get some sort of notice from the bank that you’re over your account limit or something to that effect.  I don’t know if they’re going to ask you for money or what they’re going to do, or they’re going to state here you’re in arrears and for you to do something here to bring the balance up.  Whatever it is, you can consider it a bill and issue them a check.  And even if it’s not a bill, it may be a statement.  Chances are they’re not going to send you a bill, because a bill of exchange has a very precise definition for the way it’s used in the public.  So chances are, all you’re going to get is a statement or the equivalent of a statement.  So if they’re stating you’re overdrawn, why then just issue a check for the amount they’re asking for.  
**:    Is that the finality of that?  Now that that account is closed, I can continue to—
R:    Well, if he hasn’t closed it, what they’re going to do, they’re probably going to give you certified mail, you see.  You’re going to get some certified mail to the effect they’re closing the account and they’re going to collect the funds.  But what you want to do here is write on the face of that check, “EFT ONLY”; electronic funds transfer only, and you see when they send you a bill or whatever it is it’s going to have an invoice number on it.  Write that Right on the face of check somewhere.  The memo line, you’re probably going to have full already because you’re going to tell them, “electronic funds transfer only.”  It’s a prepaid item.  But you see, you’ve got to stay from these other abstracts.  You have to keep it just as simple as I’ve just told you, and you’re jumping into these other ideas.  Stay away from them.  Just take a look at your account, just like in the simplicity we just discussed.

END.
* * * * * * *

New conversation commences shortly thereafter with **: and another Private Party (“***”) conference in.

**    I am behind in my apartment Rent, and they just gave me a notice to vacate by midnight on Monday. I had given them, back last month or so, a promissory note.
R:    Give them a check.
**    Just give them an exempt exchange check?
R:    Yeah, well, what do you mean by “exempt exchange check”?
**    I mean the prepaid EFT ONLY, the closed account one.
R:    Well, what’s the status of your account?  Have you closed it out yet?
P:    **    Yes sir, I’ve closed it out, I’ve given them notice of settlement and closure, in a letter.  Just go ahead and give them a check then?
R:    Yeah, just give them a check.  That account is always yours.  Let them take it from there, just write “EFT ONLY” on it.  Is there an invoice number on the bill they gave you?
**    No, there’s not, there’s just a letter.  I don’t want them to turn off my water on me.  That’s the only utility that they have control over, I’ve got control over my electricity and if I don’t vacate that’s what I’m concerned about, that they’ll turn off the water.
R:    Okay, the thing is here is if they get that cute here, you can probably deal with them on the phone and tell them listen, if you guys turn this water off you’re going to be named in a bankruptcy here because this is your notice here that I intend to file Chapter 11 Reorganization in bankruptcy on this.  Because when you do, you come at them as debtor in possession.  That reverses the possession of the property because right now the presumption is that the creditor’s here in possession.
***    I had gone and bought a new car and gave them a check, and I think their BAR attorney got into the picture, and I got a lot of threatening calls.  I had gone back to redo the check for the sales tax and at that time I had purchased accessories.  After that of course they started threatening me, getting calls in the middle of the night and telling me they were going to get a Writ of Replevin, and they never delivered the accessories.  I haven’t been back there.
R:    Do you have the car?
***    I do.
R:    You bought some accessories and they didn’t deliver them.  How were they to deliver them?
***    I had Received a call—this was in the midst of the threatening calls—I got a call from a guy at the dealer saying we want to make an appointment with you to have the accessories installed and I didn’t feel comfortable about going in because they were threatening to come and take the car and call the sheriff and all this stuff.  So what I did was, I sent them a letter accepting their offer, and I said, “Since you have indicated your readiness to deliver the product of your offer, please deliver the accessories in their boxes,” which they never did.  And I haven’t gotten the MSO either, yet.  And that’s where it stands.
R:    How long have you had the car?
***    Thirty-six days.
R:    Okay, and it was brand-new.
***    Yes.
R:    Okay, so what kind of closing instruments did you get with that when you closed the car and took delivery?
***    I’m sure I didn’t get what I needed.  I have a copy of the purchase order that I endorsed, accepted for value and so forth, and then all the other standard documents that you sign off on.
R:    Okay, but they gave you an acknowledgment form you had to sign when they gave you the keys and you left.  And the car is registered in your name and the whole works.
***    I haven’t registered it because I don’t have the MSO.  I was going to go down and get private plates.
R:    What do you mean, “MSO”?
**    Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin.
R:    Well, you ask the dealer for it then.  You request it, you see, because the Certificate of Origin is your request here for the registration of the car in your name.  That is the actual certificate of origin.
***    Are you referring to the Certificate of Origin on my acceptance statement that I wrote?
R:    Well, you see, when you request here that that vehicle be registered to you, that is the Certificate of Origin.  They’re just talking about the manufacturer’s certificate, but you see they’ve got to surrender that here when they sell the car, and that’s got to be surrendered here to the DMV.  Did they, now are you licensing the car right at the dealership?  A lot of these dealers here are actually that office here they register the vehicles right here on the lot.
***    Oh, no, I told them I was going to take care of that separately and they did not do any title work.
R:    Oh, so did you go down to the DMV?
***    I did, and she said you’d have to come back in 30 days after you get the Manufacturer’s Statement Of Origin.
R:    Well, you see the Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin here is that contract.  And you tell them, “This here is the Certificate of Origin.”  Did you have that written on the contract?
***    I wrote it right over at an angle, right over the purchase order.
R:    Yeah!  You tell them, “Right here is the Certificate of Origin, right here.”  Then, if they refuse, get the name of the person at the desk and if they refuse to register the vehicle, tell them, “I’ve got possession of the vehicle, I just want the license on it now.”  You just go on in and apply for them.  You see, if you go in and tell them, “I want to register a vehicle,” they’ll pull out the papers and start the work on it right away.  They get so far and then they say they’ve got to have the Manufacturers Statement of Origin.  But you just tell them that [MSO] is with the dealer and he refuses to give it.  Have they refused to give it to you?
***    I haven’t received it, I can’t say what they’re doing.
R:    You’ve asked them for it?
***    No, I have not.
R:    That’s what you need to do, you need to ask them for it and if they refuse it then do what we’re talking about.  Just call them up and tell them to send it to you because you need that to get the license plates on the car.  How were you able to drive it out of there, just on the 30-day sticker?
***    Yes.
R:    And that’s about run out.  Okay, so just tell them you need the Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin here to license the vehicle.  And you just tell them, if they get cute, “I need this right away and if there is going to be any delays then I’m going to have to give you a formal notice of intent here to file a Chapter 11 Reorganization in bankruptcy where your business organization is going to be listed as a delinquent creditor and to where I can obtain administrative methods here to discover your personal assets here and liquidate to come to settlement.”  Because you gave them what, a promissory note for payment?  
***    I gave them my acceptance statement and a closed account check.
R:    Oh, okay then, that was an EFT then.
**    They’ve got double though, don’t they?
R:    No, that’s fine.
***    They just wanted to make a big issue out of the check.
R:    Yes, I know, you see but you tell them, “We will have to adjudicate it in bankruptcy then; if you want your name up in lights then you see I’ll have to give you notice.  You will receive formal notice very shortly.”  There’s about 90 days before we really have to file the action here, once you give them the formal notice of intent to file.  But you see it is reorganization in bankruptcy and when you sign that bankruptcy petition you’re going to have to sign it as the Attorney in Fact.  That means here the same thing as your signature on that check that says you’re the authorized representative of that account, okay, representative means “attorney in fact.”  When you sign your bankruptcy papers it’s an $830 filing fee on that.  What you do in your reorganization plan when you file the action here you instruct the trustee in bankruptcy, the US trustee, to take from the credit accounts or a particular credit account, to take from that account to pay the fee.
**    Would that be also something I might add to what I’m telling them?
R:    No, this is when you actually go to file the petition, because there’s an $830 filing fee you’re going to have to authorize the US trustee to take from the credit accounts you see . . .
**    I’m thinking out loud here but would you not be able to use a closed account check?
R:    Oh sure, you could do that too.
**    For the $830?
***    It would be more fun to make them pay for it.
R:    Yes!  There you go.
***    As regards to the accessories, it would be my preference to go to a different dealer and I don’t want to go back there if I don’t have to.
R:    Yeah, I see.  Well what you do, probably you tell them that before you would trust them or install the accessories without incident you’re going to need the Certificate of Origin and the other matters cleared up before that can happen, otherwise they can either install them at a later date or you will make arrangements with another dealer or—
***    Can I Request they make arrangements with another dealer?
R:    Yeah, yeah, I think you could make arrangements with another dealer to do it. But you see I wouldn’t do it that way.  You want to make sure you’ve got enough from them here that you have a settlement of that deal and you’re not going to have other incidents, you see, and I would just tell them here you need to settle these other matters without incident before you can feel comfortable installing the accessories.  I’d make that first.  You’ve got to Remember you can always Remind these fellows here that, “If there’s any discrepancy in what happens here you will get notice of my intent here to file a Chapter 11 to enable the liquidation here of your personal assets here to ensure that I have complete satisfaction here in this matter.”
***    So far here I’ve been addressing these letters to the General Manager.  Should I keep going with him or pick up the President?
R:    No, you can go with the General Manager, you can let him know in the event these matter are not Resolved efficiently and very soon, that it will leave you having to give them notice of your intent to file a Chapter 11 Reorganization in bankruptcy to enable you to not only discover their personal assets here but to—
***    Liquidate all of the same.
R:    Yes.  Liquidate all of the same through the—see, because you will be coming in the Chapter 11 bankruptcy as debtor in possession, okay.  That’s what that means.  Debtor in possession here means the creditor, if they have failed to settle with you they have surrendered their equity.  Now, you will move some of those assets here into a Chapter 7 for liquidation of the assets to relieve the property of the debt.
***    Have you discovered an adequate way of handling utility bills?
R:    Well, I know there’s a lot of people who just use these checks, and when the utilities start to bother them it’s just like I was telling P: there earlier, that when they call them I say, “Well you’re the holder of my account, are you not?”  “Well, yes.”  “Well, then please issue my check from my account that you are the holder of and settle the matter immediately.”
***    Will this be effective with one of those clerks that have the power to pull the plug but not the education to know what we’re talking about?
R:    Well, they better find them here; if they can’t do it, tell them to put their supervisor on.  The supervisor is Superman, you know, they can’t be wrong.  They’ll probably tell you on the phone, “Oh, we’re not going to do this and we’re going to shut it off here” but what they do and what they say they do here is two different things.  Too many people go literally with what they say here.  The Bible tells you, which person are you going to go with, the person who says he’s going to do it here and never does, or the person that says he’s not going to do it but later he comes here and does your bidding?  That’s how you’re doing it with these type of deals.
***    When the threatening harassing phone calls started I called the phone company and they put a trace on the line.  They’re going to get back to me about prosecuting, and as a matter of fact I eventually Recognized the caller as being the exact finance manager whose office I sat in to do the deal, calling me at 2:30, 3:00 in the morning.  
**    Saying he was from the sheriff’s department.
***    Yes, saying they were going to do this and that, that I wrote a “bad check” . . .
R:    Okay, you take his name and tell him he’s going to be listed here as a creditor in bankruptcy here for the purpose of utilizing the administrative procedures of bankruptcy to discover his personal assets for liquidation and settlement.
***    And just let the police handle the Rest?
R:    Who’s got the police in on it?
***    The phone company.
R:    Oh, well sure, just tell them to follow up here and you can always just let the word around that if matters don’t get settled, any person here that is delinquent is going to be named in a bankruptcy for discovery of personal assets.  
***    Okay, “and in particular your drunken third party debt collector calling in the middle of the night.”
R:    Yes!  You can put it to them here in paper just like that.  “Your drunken third party collector who will be named for the purpose of applying the administrative procedures of bankruptcy to discover his personal assets and liquidate them for settlement.”
***    Would it be prudent to not mention the trace on the line and the fact there’s a police Report, or go ahead and mention it?
R:    You could if you want.  I wouldn’t get too lengthy with this.  You could hold that back if he gets onto another little incident, “well keep talking into the tape here as we got the police onto this scam of yours.  Just keep talking.”
***    My former employers fired me.  Partly that was over I had told them to stop withholding and they Refused to do it and Relations deteriorated from there.  I haven’t been able to think of an adequate way to fix them.  I had begun a commercial lien but then I saw you had mentioned you have to have a license for that?
R:    Yeah, you see, who creates liens?  Creditors.  You don’t want to be a creditor, you want to be the owner, and owners have creditors working for them.  What you do, you write to this [former employer] and you tell him that you want the funds here that he withheld from you.  “In the event, sir, that you fail to provide me with those, this is my notice here of my intent to file Chapter 11 Reorganization in bankruptcy for the purpose of utilizing the administrative procedures to discover your personal assets here for liquidation and settlement of this Request.”
***    Keeping in mind that attorneys commonly put their assets in somebody else’s name like their wife’s . . .
R:    Oh sure, they can’t own anything under the statutes.  Just put it there the assets he “owns and/or controls.”

[Interlude containing private discussion]

***    I’m very, very anxious to get out of here and I’m trying to figure out how to find a Real estate broker who is willing to be taught and get some land in exchange and get out of the city and get out of here.
R:    Well, you see, you don’t have to deal with a Realtor that knows.  All you need to do is simply go make the deal and when you go to closing, you go into closing just like you did; and when everything is on the table and everything is in order you just write them a check.
***    I won’t get a loan in the first place because of my credit.
R:    No, no, no!  You’re not going to borrow the money here.  I say you go to closing and when everything is on the table you write them a check for the full amount.  You’re not borrowing the money.
**    Suppose they run a check on that check?
R:    So what?
**    Even if it comes back and says, “closed account”?
R:    Well here’s the thing:  It’s not going to do them any good because they have to pass title to you on everything before [P2] gives them a check.  You don’t care what happens.  This thing is working in reverse and you just simply tell them here if that Realtor wants to get cute, then, you see, the bankruptcy.  “Then we’ll get the US Marshals in here to enforce it.”
***    I have seen Real estate deals and they start out with a contract to purchase, so I could just sign the contract and wait for closing and then just go and write a check?
R:    Yes, go to closing.  But you see they have to pass everything to you, everything here has to be paid.  You have to have all evidence; somebody has to sign off to you on it that they are passing good title here, that you can take possession.
***    That would be the title company then?
R:    Well, whoever is the Realtor because it’s the Realtor whose stock that he has, he has a check and if he is saying there he is going to sell you the property and he’s guaranteeing to you the title and possession, then you see you have to see on the table someplace there where he has paid the owner, or the Seller.  If that’s not there, don’t give him a check!  Because he’s trying to take your check and pay for it and then step in there and make claims.  But you see he actually has to have—and they’ll do that simultaneously at the table.  Somebody has to be there to take payment for the Seller.  The Seller has to be satisfied with a check in hand by either himself or an agent who then signs off on the agreement.  You make sure there is something in the agreement that shows whoever pays the Seller, the Seller has to sign off as having received payment in full.  And that check has to come out of the escrow, so that means that Realtor has to pay for it before you give him a check.  
***    Would I be doing this deal without giving earnest money then?
R:    Okay what you do, you set it up here so that everything is going to have to be on the contract before you’re going to put any earnest money on it, okay?  So you see you’re going to have him to set up the date when you’re going to give him the earnest money, but you’re going to tell him, “I want here all these papers here in order before you get any earnest money.”  You see, here’s another way you can do that.  You can give him a draft, then that would be returned to you when you give him the check for the final payment.
**    He would hold onto it and not deposit it?
R:    Right, he could just take the draft.  You can just give him a draft.  Basically the draft is just a promissory note anyway.
***    And by draft you mean a closed account check?  
R:    No, a draft.
***    Okay, I’ll have to find a draft document to look at.
R:    Yeah.  Basically it’s a promissory note.  But it still cash, it’s still a cash item because all commercial paper of those natures are cash here for all practical purposes.  It’s a cash item.
**    That promissory note I gave to the apartment management for six months (three months in arrears and three months’ future), they’re still holding that.  When I go in and I pay them with a closed account check they need to give that promissory note back.
R:    They’ve got to surrender it, yep.  Because actually the promise to pay is theirs, you see, you’re just authorizing them to promise to pay.  Why?  Because they work for you.  They’re employees operating your account.
***    Is there any problem with paying them one year in advance?
R:    Why?  Paying for what?
**    Paying for my apartment Rent.
R:    Oh, I don’t know.  Ask them here if they would take annual payments.  I don’t think they will.  Why do you want to do it that way?
***    I think the concern is, when we discharge the account, the account closes and so P:’s account, wouldn’t that be Represented by the lease?
**    I’ve got a month-to-month lease Right now.
***    So do I.
**    And they’re telling me that I owe them $***.
R:    Well this is what happens here.  When the account closes to zero, you shouldn’t have a bill the next month because the account is closed.  Period.
**    And then just go on living there?
R:    Sure!
**    They haven’t even been giving me any bills for several years now that I’ve been going month to month.  I just go in and give them a check.
R:    Well, keep on doing it.
**    It’s not from a closed account, what I’ve been doing is giving them a liability check.
R:    Well, you just give them one there and see what happens.
**    Now I’m switching, and my thought was to pay them the $*** which is four months in arrears and then give them 8 months in the future.
R:    I don’t think I would do that.  I’d just get it up current.  Because once these things are paid here they don’t have anything to bill on anymore.  It’s closed to the public, see, and those are public offices.  The thing is, what you want to do here is just simply—
**    Get them to issue me a bill, a proper bill.  
R:    Yes, or a statement.
**    All they gave me was a letter of notice to vacate.
R:    Yeah, see what you have to do here is accept it and Return it for settlement.  That’s payment for the whole works.  You want him then to provide you with the accounting that will assure your settlement here and secure your living quarters or your home.
**    Do I give a closed account check with that accepted for value letter that I—
R:    No, I don’t think you want to do that.  What you want to do is just make sure just to get the arrears paid up.
**    Because what I think they’re looking for here is a check.
R:    Sure!  So you get the arrears and everything paid up.  So here’s what’s going to happen here:  If they start getting cute with you and you start getting any kind of static, I don’t care what it is, that is going to be the evidence of breach of agreement because you’re telling them, “I want settlement of this particular account because the account is prepaid.”  That’s the Reason, because the corporate liability is the one that has to go through your name here to get zeroed out.
**    Would it be just as easy to go get an actual bill?
R:    Yeah, just tell them, “I need a statement as to how much I owe you and I’ll give you a check.”  Now you see, if you want, that’s in arrears and you owe one here for a current month.  Why don’t you give them two checks here, one for the arrears and one for November first.  
**    But I’ve got to receive a bill from them each time, right?
R:    No, not necessarily, but you just go in and tell them, “I’ll just give you a check for the arrears and just so that I can keep track of my own Records easier, I’ll give you a check for the current month.”  But what you do is you ought to do that at the same time.
**    So I don’t have to accept for value and Return for value this notice to vacate?
R:    Oh yeah, you do.  Yeah.  Just give that right with the checks there.  Just staple the checks Right to that “notice to vacate” and it’s Returned for value/accepted for value in exchange.  
***    In my case, I do not have a written lease, we have a verbal agreement, and he did not understand what I offered him.  He said he had to have Federal Reserve Notes.
R:    Is he operating a corporation?  Is that a corporate business?
***    I don’t know how he’s organized.
R:    You don’t care!  You don’t care how he’s organized because here’s the thing:  If he takes it to his bank and if he can’t clear it with his bank then it’s his problem, you see, because his bank is the one that’s liable for the . . . and from that point on here you can give him written comments for what the item is.  Don’t start telling him what to do with it here, you just tell him this is what the item is, it’s a setoff and you can inform him that “you and your bank will be listed in bankruptcy for discovery of personal assets.”  In other words you’re going to take over the whole building then.  Is it a lot of apartments or what?
***    He is a [occupation], they have their Retail establishment, the Rest of the building is now apartments, there’s only nine of them.  I have been paying him under his name, to date.
R:    Okay, well you just tell him then, “Place this here with your accountant.”  If he has a problem with the check you tell him, “Take it to your accountant and just inform him you got a notice of my intent to take the matter into bankruptcy as debtor in possession.  I’m going to file a Chapter 11” just like we stated.  You want to give him the language like we earlier stated.
***    I had presented the idea to him and he lied to me, he told me he spoke to his accountant but he never did, I know he didn’t.
R:    Okay, then he doesn’t have any consideration coming.  Because what’s going to happen, you’re going to go after his building.  We’re doing one of these in California right now.  Here’s the thing:  They surrendered the equity because these attorneys can’t carry property in their name under statutes because they can’t come in and claim statutory authority, which a warranty deed would cover.  
***    You know that reminds me:  I have been looking for some kind of cite with Regard to it being a felony for an attorney to charge a claim without an assessment.  I haven’t been able to find that.
R:    Yeah, I know, but don’t even worry about it yet.  There are some people here that told me they’ve got their hands on some of that.  But you just tell him that.  Just tell him, “Hey, buddy, it’s a felony” and let them, being experts in the law, come and try to tell the world that it’s not.
P:    On these acceptance wording, you always put “Certificate of Origin” at the top, “Non-Transferable/Private Matter”, is that correct?
R:    Well, a lot of times on it I just write, “Accepted and Returned.”
**    You don’t put anything else, like “adjust the account?”
R:    Not Really, sometimes I don’t, it just depends on . . .
**    So this letter and notice to vacate, I can just simply put on there, “accepted and Returned for value” and don’t put my EIN number, don’t sign it, anything.
R:    No, you could just put your initials on it.  That’s enough.
***    There’s a lot of confusion about that EIN number.
R    You don’t use “EIN” number, you call it “Employer ID number” because if you don’t they’ll assume it’s an employee.  Write out “Employer.”  The best thing now is, to go over again now, you don’t give them a check at that Real estate closing until everything is on the table, until they have everything there and you can ask them here for the acknowledgment invoice for you to sign for you.  See, they need for you to sign an acknowledgment because the acknowledgment is what Releases them from the liens on the property, it releases them.  Actually when you sign an acknowledgment on a closing and walk out of there, you’ve made all of the Real estate companies’ checks good.  Because when he’s writing checks and he’s getting everybody at that closing to admit they’ve received payment, he’s liable.  He’s liable.  He has to have your check now or he has to have you sign off on the . . . you wouldn’t even have to give him a check, all you’d have to do is sign his acknowledgment form, the acknowledgment here that he did perform pursuant to that contract, because that’s a closing of escrow.  But you see, you giving him your closed check, that’s just another way of saying here, it’s a closing of escrow.  You could do it either way if you didn’t want to get involved in the check controversy, and then just tell him, “I will sign your acknowledgment for settlement.”
**    So you accept for value and Return for value in exchange for settlement and closure that acknowledgment.
R:    Yeah!  And you see, when you’re sitting at that table and everybody’s there to close and the Realtor refuses to close, you just get up and say, “Well then, gentlemen, this is my notice to you here of my intention to file a Chapter 11 Reorganization in bankruptcy to enable me to discover your personal assets and liquidate the claims.”
***    Do you see any problem with me paying off my son’s car?
R:    No, but is he prone for getting into trouble at all?
***    No, not at all.  He’s a straight arrow.
R:    Well, then, no, because . . . how old is he?  You see if you’ve got troublesome kids sometimes that’s when they’ll start on them for every . . . they’ll make sure they cross every T and dot every I in their life.  They’ll go back on the parent for the kids.  My suggestion to you is if you’re going to do anything on the real estate that you do that first and make sure you’ve cleared it before you start with your son.  You don’t need any more complexities until you’ve get these cleaned up.  Because you see, there are some things that—for instance, they want to ask for earnest money.  Why?  Because they want to qualify you for credit, that’s what they want to do, and keep the debt system fired.  But you see the way you do it here, you tell them, “Okay, if I have to have earnest money how soon do I have to have the earnest money in before we settle?”  And he’d say, “Oh, about a month.”  And just tell him, “I don’t want there to be ‘hackled’” and just tell him, “I’m going to have to talk to my banker, even if I’m going to raise earnest money.”  
**    You could give him a draft or a promissory note.
R:    Yeah, you could, that he could take up here at the closing but I think I’d stay away from that if I could.  When you’re talking with your banker, you’re talking to P: and me, you see.  “This is the information I get from my bank, these are the things I need, we need everything on the table and I need the paperwork finished up here and even if we can’t close everything when I come up with the earnest money” then you’re going to use an excess deposit, in other words for contingency, you’re going to make the deal for approximately, well say a $100,000 deal tell him we’re going to include a 10% contingency excess deposit to be sure the escrow is going to close on time.  In there you want to make sure you Reserve the Right to pay immediately any of the, for example, installments that are pending, that you can choose to pay these here at any time.  Usually they’ll allow a clause like that in all these contracts if it is going to be payment in full.  The Reason you want to do that is because the day you go to give them the earnest money you’re going to give them the whole works.
P:    So they would have had to exchange the paperwork to you first.
R    Yes.  You’re going to walk in and say, “I need all the papers here if you want to have my earnest money.  I have to know if you can pass title.  If you can’t pass any title here, if you can’t pay the seller off, I’m surely not going to give you any money here because I want to see you’ve already paid the Seller.  That’s what my banker told me to watch for here to be sure every dollar that’s listed on this contract has been paid out and the people it goes to have signed off on it, that I have that particular Receipt in my hand.”  You also go there with a witness, and every time something in that closing is agreed to and settled, stuff it inside of an envelope and that’s a done deal.  The Reason you do that is so that they don’t have any bystanders around that can testify to something other than settlement.  Somebody goes with you.  When you have an item, okay, this here is a lien for settlement on a Receipt here for the utilities, for the water, okay that goes in the envelope because you show where the Realtor has paid for it.  Maybe the Realtor is going to sign off for all of those, but you have to have that, and you just tell them, “My banker insisted you have that in your possession” before you can give him a check.  He doesn’t know how much of a check you’re going to give him at that point.  And you’re also going to have the contract written that the contingency is going to be for 10% over, and the contingency, after closing the Realtor can refund the overpayment, just write you a check for it.  Because if you sign an acknowledgment for that, in fact he’s going to have to give you that check right at the closing.  On a $100,000 deal you might want to put in maybe 5% because there are things that can come up at the last minute and that’s what contingencies is for, so the escrow can close immediately and not be held up because of some unpaid, outstanding lien.
***    What would you do in a deal if they’re demanding both sides are represented by a BAR attorney?
R:    Just tell them these instructions will go to that attorney.  Because you see you are the Representative.  You’re representing the straw man, you’re the attorney in fact.  Just tell them, “I am the attorney here and I’m closing for the owner.  I’m the Representative of the owner, I’m not the owner of the property but I can sign for the owner, and I have the owner’s check here, and the owner has already signed the check.”
**    You would actually be called the title owner, is that right?
R:    Yeah!  Your straw man is.  Everything is always done in the name of the Straw man.
**    I have a trial date with a justice of the peace with a past ticket that I handled in a different method.  How I handled it back nine months ago was, I rejected the offer of contract right across the presentment here in the 72-houR Rule in the Truth in Lending act.  It was never discharged, and I kept on wondering why the charge kept on coming back up again because it was never settled and closed.
R:    Yeah, well, you see if they get real obstinate, then you turn to the bankruptcy.
**    Should I go in to trial and just do the wording of acceptance for value and Return for value, and if they give me a hard time just say, do you have a claim against me . . .
R:    Yeah, yeah, because those three questions is a civil deposition, that’s what those three are.  You don’t even have to say the acceptance.  For one thing, when they bring the charge you can ask them, “Is this a civil or criminal charge?”  Because that traffic ticket on its face is a criminal charge, and that judge is going to have to turn it on its back and say it’s civil, because it’s the civil assessment they have to get before they can charge it criminally. [some words lost] So, “We have now concluded the public business here and blah,” and the next thing they end up in the slammer.  Because anything you say can and will be used if they’re a mind of that.  If you’re just up against a justice of the peace, it isn’t going to get too sophisticated.
**    Whenever he asks me what my name is, do I go ahead and say what my name is or do I say that’s my property, that I’m Me, the addressee?
R:    Ask him, “Are you referring to the name here on the ticket?”  Ask him that.
**    And he says, “Yes”—
R:    Okay, well tell him, “That’s not my name, that’s not me.  I’m the Representative here for that person.”
**    And if he keeps trying to get me to cough up who I am, my name, I just say, “Are you addressing me?” and if he says, “Yes,” I just say, “I’m Me.”
R:    No, you ask him, “Do you have a claim against me?”  You depose him right there.  You don’t have to give your name, you make someone else identify you.
**    Should I start with the prosecuting attorney first, or the judge first?
R:    Well, I don’t know.  If the judge is there and he’s got the ticket in his hand or the prosecutor has got it.  Find out where the original instrument is and if they don’t have it, they’ve got no claim.  Not only that, if they ask how much is the fine or how much is the value of that ticket, if he says there’s a $100 fine or blah, well you just instruct the prosecutor to pay it since he’s the holder of the account.
***    That’s more fun than firing him, P:!
**    Is there another way to do it without having to go into the court?
R:    Well, if it’s already set for trial . . .
**    It’s already set for trial.
R:    Then you see, you’ll “up it” to an arrest warrant is what will happen.
**    By failure to appear.
R:    Sure!  But somebody will have to charge that warrant.  And then you see they might not do it Right away, they’ll just let it hang over your head for month’s maybe and just at their own pleasure they’ll issue it when you least expect it.
**    And put it on the police database . . . That’s what they did with my [age] year-old son.  I handled one of his things about six months ago and they never even—this was the city of [city]—and it was a traffic ticket, and I Rejected the offer of contract and everything went quiet.  But they put a warrant out on the police database and he got pulled over the other day and the policeman said, “You need to go and take care of this.”  He didn’t give him a citation for it, he just said, “There’s a warrant out for your arrest in [city] and you need to  take care of this as soon as possible.”  So I called over there to [city] at the municipal court and the clerk answers and I said, “I’m the attorney in this matter and my client never received any presentment.”  She goes, “Your client doesn’t have to receive a presentment. If he didn’t pay the ticket we put the warrant out on the police database.  If you want you can just make a money order or a check and send it to us and that will take care of it.  But there will be a guilty plea put on it automatically.”  
R:    Yeah.  So what’s wrong with that?  You know where they get you and railroad you is they enter “not guilty” pleas on you to keep the controversy going.  The “guilty” plea means a done deal.  That’s an agreement.
**    So I can just find out what the amount is and write a closed account check.
R:    Yeah!  We used to take care of stuff like that with POMC’s.  “Public office money certificate.”  It’s basically the same thing, it looks like a check but it’s just called a public office money certificate.  Those things were in circulation so many years ago it’s hard to Remember back that far.
**    They’re not using them anymore?
R:    I don’t know.  We’re just going right through the banks now.  But these used to work with these public offices.
**    So I can write a check on my account for my son’s Straw man name.
R:    Oh yeah.  It doesn’t matter.  But you see, take the ticket number and write it on the face of that check that this is a prepaid exchange, EFT ONLY.  Then write the citation number Right on the check.
**    To make it simple, I could go right into this trial date and just ask to settle and close with a check, right?
R:    Yeah, you could just go in ahead of time and just go to the clerk and give them the check.  You could go in probably the day before.
**    So I go in to the clerk and ask to settle and close that account.
R:    Right.  Just give her a check right there.

END.